The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[gerstlaueringvar]

How do you calculate the coaster's capacity? This is what I do with my designs and I'm not sure if it's correct:

 

3600/time between two dispatches of the same train•number of trains•number of riders per train.

[coasterlvr]

Based on watching Goliath operate, it is limited to about 800 pph due to the minimum dispatch interval (about 1:45).

 

are you saying they can't dispatch trains until 1:45? i've seen them dispatch faster than that. the clock in the station is 1 minute and a couple fridays ago, they were actually decently fast. i'd guess just over the minute to 1:30 the 3 times i rode that day. although, that's not usually my experience with timing.

 

 

when i'm waiting in line, and the line moves twice as slow as the ride is designed for because of lazy employees, it bothers me. that's when i care about capacity. parks like kings island and cedar point run people through the lines. it's rare you look up at the track and you don't see a train, or even two, on the course. but, i'm accustomed to magic mountain's speed, and just happy an RMC will be near me.

[JeromyL]

I was under the impression that ride is only going to use 3 trains with two always dueling. Makes sense in my mind I guess. 4 trains sounds nice but also very hopeful. Are you sure they said 4?

 

During West Coast Bash's Lunch, I asked that question, and they said they were getting 3 trains...

[Comeagain?]

Even a moderately efficient crew without the benefit of a grouper or lockers or anything can regularly hit 1:30 unload/load time.

 

I was under the impression that ride is only going to use 3 trains with two always dueling. Makes sense in my mind I guess. 4 trains sounds nice but also very hopeful. Are you sure they said 4?

 

During West Coast Bash's Lunch, I asked that question, and they said they were getting 3 trains...

 

The article with the POV video said they're getting 4 trains, with the goal of running 3 regularly. With 1 regularly out for maintenance.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Comeagain?

[DJeXeL]

Translation: 1 will become a parts donor a couple months after opening, 1 will be in constant rehab which will take the ride down to 2 trains regularly, a few months after opening.

[rcdude]

Based on watching Goliath operate, it is limited to about 800 pph due to the minimum dispatch interval (about 1:45).

 

are you saying they can't dispatch trains until 1:45? i've seen them dispatch faster than that. the clock in the station is 1 minute and a couple fridays ago, they were actually decently fast. i'd guess just over the minute to 1:30 the 3 times i rode that day. although, that's not usually my experience with timing.

 

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was referring to the SFGAm Goliath. SFMM's Goliath was a capacity machine before the seatbelts were added, with the crew regularly hitting the 60 second clock and competing with Viper for the highest daily throughput. Unfortunately, from what I've heard it is now difficult for them to get even 1,000 pph on SFMM's Goliath due to seatbelts and guests slowing them down.

[coasterlvr]

Based on watching Goliath operate, it is limited to about 800 pph due to the minimum dispatch interval (about 1:45).

 

are you saying they can't dispatch trains until 1:45? i've seen them dispatch faster than that. the clock in the station is 1 minute and a couple fridays ago, they were actually decently fast. i'd guess just over the minute to 1:30 the 3 times i rode that day. although, that's not usually my experience with timing.

 

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was referring to the SFGAm Goliath. SFMM's Goliath was a capacity machine before the seatbelts were added, with the crew regularly hitting the 60 second clock and competing with Viper for the highest daily throughput. Unfortunately, from what I've heard it is now difficult for them to get even 1,000 pph on SFMM's Goliath due to seatbelts and guests slowing them down.

 

ah, gotcha. i first thought that you did mean SFGA Goliath, then thought no because right after you talked about X2. lol

 

when i was at SFGA, i was just excited to ride Goliath and had platinum flash pass so i got my two rides without waiting too long.

[JeromyL]

Even a moderately efficient crew without the benefit of a grouper or fluffy, fluffy bunnies filled with medicine and goo or anything can regularly hit 1:30 unload/load time.

 

I was under the impression that ride is only going to use 3 trains with two always dueling. Makes sense in my mind I guess. 4 trains sounds nice but also very hopeful. Are you sure they said 4?

 

During West Coast Bash's Lunch, I asked that question, and they said they were getting 3 trains...

 

The article with the POV video said they're getting 4 trains, with the goal of running 3 regularly. With 1 regularly out for maintenance.

 

They could have not understood my question and thought I was asking how many running trains instead of total trains.

[GayCoasterGuy]

When Goliath at Great America opened to the public, they were filling every single seat and getting every single train out before the next one stopped on the brake run. It was a sight to behold! I couldn't believe the staff could or could figure out how to move that quick. It was feverish just watching them. But that type of operation didn't last long. They still have like 5 or 6 ride operators up there (including a supervisor) but every train stacks now (for up to two minutes).

 

Even at that crazy pace, they only got a maximum of 802 riders in one hour? Ideally, one would pass the block coming into the brakes while another train goes over the lift seconds later. But you would need a double station and have a train "ready" to launch at all times... which would require more trains.

 

From one point of view it's a lack of integrity coming down from the top; but their point of view might be "why bother hustling - we can sell more flash passes." I think there is that inner-struggle at Six Flags all the time. It's blinding how fast quality of operations can change from day to day. Some employees really want to do the best job possible, but give up when they know it's a losing battle.

 

I would hope the new Colossus would have a better operation, but it's built to have slow lines. A double station (that is used) with 4 or 5 trains would have been perfect, but I know that WAY too much to ask for.

[RAWKIN_coaster38]

Anyone want to go in with me on the "buy 2 or more passes" deal to process before Nov 2nd? I can go any weekend but probably not on a Friday.

 

Message me if you can do it!

[coastercoaster5]

So do you guys think there will be seat belts?

[iloveblueberries]

So do you guys think there will be seat belts?

Probably

[rcdude]

So do you guys think there will be seat belts?

 

Every existing RMC has them, so I would be shocked if Twisted Colossus didn't. Shouldn't make much difference in the ride experience, so not a big deal.

[_IntaMAN_]

^ This. I remember I bitched when Full Throttle got seat belts but it did nothing to the experience at all. Just glad we have an RMC at last.

[iloveblueberries]

Safety first guys.

[gerstlaueringvar]

Would it work if they install the seat belt to the side of the lap bar? Kind of like Wicked Twister's. I think that would improve the capacity a bit.

[WFChris]

Thanks so much for the help! It's very kind for all you guys to help me.

 

I'll post my TR

 

Can't wait to see your TR!!! Hope you have a great time up here

[willthethrill]

Safety first guys.

 

Thanks Dad

[JohnTheriault]

^ well sincerly i prefer seatbelts over death, but its your opinion

[willthethrill]

Storytime! Roller coasters and thrill rides in general have operated quite safely for many decades before the "seat-belt craze" of late. I'll explain to all the youngsters out there. Seat belts, as a primary restraint device, are useless. You may as well ask your mom riding next to you to hold you in your seat. Seat belts as a secondary restraint device are *almost* as pointless since most can be unlatched by the rider at any time. And since people are panicky and stupid, they should not be left in control of their own safety at parks. Basically modern seatbelts are a placebo - they make us feel warm and fuzzy in this big cruel world.

 

So then why the hell are they even there you ask? Well their primary function today is to ensure that rider dimensions (fatness) don't exceed primary restraint tolerances. Meaning if the seat belt can't be buckled then the rider is too big for the lap bar/shoulder harness to function as intended and your chances of going 'bye-bye' while riding go way up.

 

Rare exceptions do exist of course.

Edited October 23, 2014 by willthethrill

[iloveblueberries]

Storytime! Roller coasters and thrill rides in general have operated quite safely for many decades before the "seat-belt craze" of late. I'll explain to all the youngsters out there. Seat belts, as a primary restraint device, are useless. You may as well ask your mom riding next to you to hold you in your seat. Seat belts as a secondary restraint device are *almost* as point-less since most can be unlatched by the rider at any time. Basically they are a placebo - they make us feel warm and fuzzy in this big cruel world.

 

Their primary function today is to ensure that rider dimensions (fatness) don't exceed primary restraint tolerances. Meaning if the seat belt can't be buckled then the rider is too big for the lap bar/shoulder harness to function as intended and your chances of going 'bye-bye' while riding go way up. There are a few exceptions of course.

 

 

....orrrr they're a fail-safe in case the restraint malfunctions. Even though it's highly unlikely, it's still possible. You can't take any chances.

[willthethrill]

Yeah and I can see why that is a common misconception. Imagine this scenario; coaster train stalls in loop, OTSR restraints fail in a particular car for whatever reason leaving the seat belt as the only apparatus holding that shoulder harness closed. How many people in that car do you think would panic and release their belt thinking they would be safer if they tried to climb down than hang upside down for hours? Any device that allows the passenger to have control of its function is a poor option.

 

Yes people can be held in by seat belts but I would argue that a coaster with them is negligibly more safe than one without.

One could even say that the *illusion* of safety created by a belt is even more dangerous than it being absent altogether.

[singemfrc]

Storytime! Roller coasters and thrill rides in general have operated quite safely for many decades before the "seat-belt craze" of late. I'll explain to all the youngsters out there. Seat belts, as a primary restraint device, are useless. You may as well ask your mom riding next to you to hold you in your seat. Seat belts as a secondary restraint device are *almost* as point-less since most can be unlatched by the rider at any time. Basically they are a placebo - they make us feel warm and fuzzy in this big cruel world.

 

Their primary function today is to ensure that rider dimensions (fatness) don't exceed primary restraint tolerances. Meaning if the seat belt can't be buckled then the rider is too big for the lap bar/shoulder harness to function as intended and your chances of going 'bye-bye' while riding go way up. There are a few exceptions of course.

 

 

....orrrr they're a fail-safe in case the restraint malfunctions. Even though it's highly unlikely, it's still possible. You can't take any chances.

On older rides and those with plain mechanical/ratcheting restraints, sure, but on brand new rides with hydraulic restraints no. will is correct, theyre mostly used to make sure the guest fits properly in the seat, and also they make guests who don't know alot about the restraints (like yourself) feel safer. In reality modern hydraulic restraints require many many times more force than the coaster or rider is capable of delivering to open them. Even still, they have redundancies built in so in the astronomically rare chance that it were to fail, it still would not release. They require a specific voltage electrical current be applied to open them. Normally the station applies that current; in the event of an evacuation, the mechanic has to bring a portable device out to the train and plug it into the car to release the riders.

 

There's practically no question that the rides will have the selt belts though, Six Flags requires them in California on any inverting coaster that doesnt have an OTSR. They were recently added to Goliath and YOLO which did not have them when originally installed.

[dannyboy13]

Headed to the park tomorrow with my son! Will be there Friday, Saturday, and for a couple hours on Sunday. Praying for light crowds (doubtful on Saturday I know).

 

Anyone else going to be there?

[Jew]

One could even say that the *illusion* of safety created by a belt is even more dangerous than it being absent altogether.

 

I would disagree with that part. Thanks to final destination and all those fake videos floating around the internet, I am sure many guests actually do believe their restraints can fail, so the seat belt is an extra psychological thing to make the guests feel safer.