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The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

Page 2218 - Wonder Woman Roller Coaster for 2022!

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The rack and pinion system is mechanical and therefor is subject to wear. As the train ages and the cycle count increases, the composite metal gear teeth will wear down thus increasing gap size between connecting components which will result in a less smooth rotation especially at speed. This is not an issue that can be resolved easily because even if the rack and pinions are brand new you cannot have the gear teeth fit perfectly; the train speed and seat rotation speed are much too quick in a system like this so initial gap tolerances must exist to avoid the chance of grinding or jamming of the gears.

 

Additionally you have to have tolerances compensate for temperature induced changes in the third rail. Don't forget, just as with any metal the third rail is subject to expansion and contraction as the weather changes which can greatly alter the dynamics of the system. (I suspect this may be a reason these types of rides have only been built in parks with a relatively moderate climate.) As mentioned earlier even a gap of half a millimeter at the gear teeth will be amplified greatly as the distance increases through the seats and out to your extremities. This is why you can rock your chair even at a standstill.

This technical stuff is nice, but it's all meaningless to me. All I care about is -

 

Does the ride beat the crap out of me or not?

 

All I know is that at one point it didn't beat the crap out of me, and now it does. I don't care what the excuses are.

Edited by robbalvey
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^ thanks? I haven't been on it in a couple seasons but it seems like that design may be as close to perfection as can be obtained outside of using some crazy expensive composite materials on future installations. But those rides are already expensive enough so I don't really see that type of investment being made. I can handle one or two go-arounds per visit, still worth a little pain for me...

Edited by willthethrill
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^^Sorry to hear that Robb. As a coaster enthusiast, I find the guts of how a coaster runs just as interesting as riding. I guess it helps that I'm an engineering student.

 

This discussion about the X2 trains is rather interesting, with some interesting theories. One thing people have mentioned is the Dinoconda trains seem to do the same thing as the X2 train, whereas Eujanaika does not. I remember when it was X, and that hard rocking motion at the beginning of the ride was evident with the old trains as well. It's most likely something with the track setup that somehow was fixed in Eujanaika, but then reintroduced at Dinoconda.

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The rack and pinion system is mechanical and therefor is subject to wear. As the train ages and the cycle count increases, the composite metal gear teeth will wear down thus increasing gap size between connecting components which will result in a less smooth rotation especially at speed. This is not an issue that can be resolved easily because even if the rack and pinions are brand new you cannot have the gear teeth fit perfectly; the train speed and seat rotation speed are much too quick in a system like this so initial gap tolerances must exist to avoid the chance of grinding or jamming of the gears.

 

Additionally you have to have tolerances compensate for temperature induced changes in the third rail. Don't forget, just as with any metal the third rail is subject to expansion and contraction as the weather changes which can greatly alter the dynamics of the system. (I suspect this may be a reason these types of rides have only been built in parks with a relatively moderate climate.) As mentioned earlier even a gap of half a millimeter at the gear teeth will be amplified greatly as the distance increases through the seats and out to your extremities. This is why you can rock your chair even at a standstill.

This technical stuff is nice, but it's all meaningless to me. All I care about is -

 

Does the ride beat the crap out of me or not?

 

All I know is that at one point it didn't beat the crap out of me, and now it does. I don't care what the excuses are.

 

Robb you are funny! YES X2 does beat the crap out you BUT it does have it good rides on a small occasion. I rode it twice on Tuesday and for me the best seat was middle train car 4 inner seat. I had a good ride, not too bumpy during the transitions. Being 6'2 225 is not always fun on these rides!

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^ Do you remember which train you were on? The one that beat the hell out of me (twice) was train 3. I had tried to get on the inside but both times the inside restraint was stuck in little person mode and wouldnt move up and I had to switch to an outside seat. Maybe train 3 is overdue for rehab.

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However, I'm still not convinced that high rail tolerance is to blame. If the rotational rails were subject to high tolerances (leading to the cars' extra back and forth shaking), then wouldn't the weight bearing rails be subject to high tolerances as well? If that were the case, then wouldn't we be feeling up and down / side to side roughness coming from the movement of the actual ride carriages? In other words, we'd be feeling roughness coming in from two dimensions.

 

The rotational roughness is less tolerant to changes because unlike the wheels on the top / bottom of the trace as they go flipping around, the movement of the third rail controlling the rotation is independent of gravity. To try to explain, think of it like this...

 

Move rides put pressure downward the majority of the time - which makes sense, because that is where gravity pulls you. "Ejector air" is essentially what happens when a train changes from riding on the wheels on the top of the train to the wheels on the bottom, and it is relatively rare. So, what you have with older rides is that 95%+ of their time is spend on the top wheels of the ride, so the variances in the track - which happen gradually over time, it isn't like the track is going up and down an inch every foot or two - mostly don't affect it.

 

A ride like X where the train is flipping over to exert pressure on both sets of wheels, even with a decent amount of variance, wouldn't by itself become a totally rough monster. The transitions would be relatively smooth, and even a half-inch variance in flipping from wheel to wheel at 60 mph would not be enough to send a major jolt through the ride, especially because the direction of travel itself remains unchanged.

 

The rail tolerance in old Arrow rides (and many others, it isn't just Arrow) is not the issue that a lot of them got so rough. That has more to do with their design then anything else... but on a ride like a 4D coaster, where the ride has a rail that is moving riders in a non-traditional way means that the forces of gravity and direction change are totally re-written... and it could make the ride a horrible mess.

 

Random fact - In the realm of "how bad Arrow designs used to be," I was once told and have not been proven wrong that with the exception of ONE coaster, all of Arrow's corkscrews went in the exact same direction. I haven't found any proof that this is wrong. It explains some of the jolty-ness of their rides though because they drop into the corkscrews and put a ton of pressure on the inside running wheels instead of on the top wheels where it belongs. Both Demon rides are perfect examples of this - if the corkscrew element went the other way, the ride would enter them with the pressure being on the top wheels. Instead, they enter them "backwards" and give the riders a side-to-side jolt as the train changes direction.

 

Okay, seriously - someone want to start a thread about this?

 

Back on the topic of the full park, does YOLO have any interactions with other rides? I can't seem to wrap my head around what the layout is exactly, and if it is going under or over other stuff. Anyone have a picture from the observation tower?

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I am going to Magic Mountain next Monday. What is the best approach to attacking the park? We are not considering flash pass just to give some additional info. My mom can't really ride anything too too intense. Is there anything at all for her? The shows aren't up and running until the 2nd week of June. Also, best food options for inside the park? Thanks for your help!

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I am going to Magic Mountain next Monday. What is the best approach to attacking the park? We are not considering flash pass just to give some additional info. My mom can't really ride anything too too intense. Is there anything at all for her? The shows aren't up and running until the 2nd week of June. Also, best food options for inside the park? Thanks for your help!

This coming monday being a holiday is probably going to be pretty busy. You might want to consider even a regular flash pass if you will be doing any amount of rides. The only decent food inside the park is the Mooseburger Lodge, but if you don't mind leaving the park for lunch, you can just take Magic Mtn Pkwy about 3 minutes down the road to the Town Center mall, there are several good options over there.

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For parents, there are a few options. But the less intense rides are the remaining water rides (3), Collosuss, Goldrusher, Apocalypse, Superman. There are 6 flats, classic fairground style. Depending on the tolerance for spinning, some options there. Goliath might be pushing it because of the helix. I don't consider Lex to be intense, very smooth and comfortable experience really, unless the guest is afraid of heights.

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The one thing I've never heard anyone say is that the original X was a smooth ride. That was one of the most painful rides there was, and was right up there with White Canyon!

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Im shocked X2 is rough again, outstanding concept, crappy engineering i guess. Anyone who has ridden all 4D coasters..cough cough Robb, are they all rough?

 

EDIT:Well catching up on the thread, it seems they literally beat the crap out of you

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^ To be fair he said the jury is still out on Dinoconda because it's smooth now but it's brand new, we have to wait and see if it degenerates like the other two.

4D is still an amazing ride..I wish other designers like B&M would attempt it and try to improve...but 4D are so ridiculously expensive to build and maintain I can see why theyd rather focus on wingriders.

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^ Actually I could just have been lucky but my rides on X (all in 2007) were smoother than most of my rides on X2.

I think smooth is all relative. I can tell you with great certainty that there is no way X was ever "smooth" in 2007. And I'm talking in a technical term like putting an accelerator on the ride and measuring forces and lateral movements.

 

Maybe it was smooth "to you", but there is no way that ride ran smooth in 2007.

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Neither X or X2 were ever smooth. Never. Whether it's been slightly less rough in the past or whatever, it's a very minor difference. From the first day it opened, X/X2 has always felt like someone whacked me in the stomach with a baseball bat multiple times.

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^ Actually I could just have been lucky but my rides on X (all in 2007) were smoother than most of my rides on X2.

I think smooth is all relative. I can tell you with great certainty that there is no way X was ever "smooth" in 2007. And I'm talking in a technical term like putting an accelerator on the ride and measuring forces and lateral movements.

 

Maybe it was smooth "to you", but there is no way that ride ran smooth in 2007.

Yeah for sure. Maybe instead of "smooth" I should just say "not painful"
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