CreditCrazy Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 ^That's your opinion, and I respect it. However, we will have to disagree on the sentiment that effects don't make the physical ride better. Sure it may make for a better "experience" per se, and in that regard, I could agree with you. However, as it stands, Scream is the odd-ride-out in a family of thrill machines. I think its a fun ride, but I don't think its gonna knock anybody's socks off, even if you add fire and misters to it. I respect your opinion too, but it was also a smoother ride than Scream is. I agree that Scream really isn't a ride that's going to knock your socks off but I think that it could be a very solid and enjoyable ride if management decided to introduce a Bizarro-like treatment. Sure, mist and fire only adds to the overall 'experience' like you said, but isn't it the experience that actually counts? It's like comparing X to X2. But as a stand alone ride, Scream and Bizarro both are only mediocre, there's just that fact that Bizarro has audio, fire, mist, and light effects alone with a smoother ride. I am in agreement with Bolliger&Mabillard here. Mist and fire effects do nothing for me as the rider. I think it just makes it more entertaining for spectators who are watching the ride. You hardly notice any of these effects while riding which is why adding a ridiculous Bizarro theme would not make me want to ride Scream any more. The only good thing that came from the X2 tansformation is adding the new trains, which are just as rough in my opinion, but are very cool looking. I agree with MagicMountainMan. X to X2 is a perfect example. I never got to ride X, but I've gotten some very rough rides on X2 and it's very unenjoyable. X must have been a lot worse. Sure, giving Scream! a Bizarro re-theme wouldn't make it smoother (because it isn't really rough to begin with) but adding some fire and mist to some parts of the ride can make it more exciting, popular and can distract you from some of the rattle. I actually think it'd be weird to have X2, Terminator and a Bizarro all in the same park, and I think it's getting a little boring to keep adding fire/mist/audio for re-doing rides, so I definitely want something different than a Bizarro theme but some theme would be nice. AND GRASS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMountainMan Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I do believe that anything in the shape of theming or multi-sensory effects will only improve Scream so why not have a go at it one of these years when there is nothing major being added to the park? It isn't going to hurt. But I assure you that Bizarro is a much more enjoyable ride than Scream is seeing as I have ridden them both in the past 3 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcalicoaster Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 ^Have you ridden Bizarro? You hardly notice any effects while on the ride. MM could use that money for other purposes. It really is almost a waste. After a year the old paint starts to show through, the flames dont work, and the speakers are broke. I don't believe it will improve the ride at all. JMO I haven't been to MM in a long time. Do the flames still work on every ride? When I rode X2 the only thing that was noticeable in terms of improving the ride was the new cars. The rest is just meh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Starr Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 ^Have you ridden Bizarro? But I assure you that Bizarro is a much more enjoyable ride than Scream is seeing as I have ridden them both in the past 3 months. As for new effects on rides, when the GP sees flames, they think it's awesome. A new paint job and theme makes the GP think it's a brand new coaster, while saving money (which Six Flags obviously needs to focus on). If there was only the choice of keeping Scream! as is, or remodeling it into Bizzaro, Bizzaro would be the better choice. Do you want a parking lot coaster, or a themed parking lot coaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesdillaman Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Fire is just theming to the California Wildfires. It makes sense.... Six Flags is just getting a leg up by theming Six Flags California where Disney missed out with the old California Adventure... -James Dillaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMountainMan Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 ^Have you ridden Bizarro? You hardly notice any effects while on the ride. MM could use that money for other purposes. It really is almost a waste. After a year the old paint starts to show through, the flames dont work, and the speakers are broke. I don't believe it will improve the ride at all. JMOI haven't been to MM in a long time. Do the flames still work on every ride? When I rode X2 the only thing that was noticeable in terms of improving the ride was the new cars. The rest is just meh YES I've been on it! With proper upkeep, any effect could be working for years and years. It's just when a park decides to neglect the ride is when it starts to become dilapidated. And in SFMM's case I do not think that the new management is going to let that happen to any of the rides, let alone a new/refurbished one. And YES the flames still work on every ride (Termy and X2). So you're saying that on X2 you didn't think that the excellent on board audio or mist or fire improved the ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolliger&Mabillard Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I think X2 is not the best example. It's not going from one extreme to the other. It's going from one extreme to further extreme on the same side. Who here can say that X wasn't already an awesome ride? Before the overhaul, X was still by far the most popular ride in the park. Even if you factor slow dispatch times into the queuing time, you figure that a 3 hour wait for a ride in a park where the average wait time for major rides is 45 minutes to 1 hour (again, these are 2007 numbers) that says something. Even as far back as 2002, people have been flocking to X2 as soon as the gates open. It's not like the park took a ride that nobody cared about anymore and made it great again. I've ridden Bizarro. I can't lie that it made Medusa more popular. I can't deny that people are excited to see this "new attraction" the park has. That's fine and dandy. I truly think this wasn't a bad move. But I still feel that with the ride structure not changing, how long is it going to take for the flare of that "new car smell" to wear off? I think Scream! will benefit from a remodel in the short run, but overtime when the soke clears and the mirrors have smudges-it will end up being the same ride that we all know is fun, but nothing great. Tatsu in my "biased" opinion is a much more intense ride than Scream!, and in three shaort years, when the flare of a new ride has gone, it averages minimal wait times, despite less than stellar operations. It's hard to see spending the money to market the ride as something new, just for it to end up having the same reputation a few short seasons later. Of course this is speculatory, and I could be wrong, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I just think the money could be used to instead revamp Scream! ( a ride that 6 years old and shouldn't need a revamp) use the capital to improve landscaping, more indoor seating for eateries, better training of employees, and overall upkeep. I may be alone on this, but I personally wouldn't mint not seeing a coaster for the next four years if it ment the park would use its resources to have a train on Tatsu hitting the lift every 70 seconds, or having more than one parking lot tram running on a saturday in July, or seeing more than two ticket booths open at park opening, or having a nice, air conditioned room to eat my $16 combo from Johnny Rockets. In my mind, all these things hold priority to painting a ride that's perfectly fine. More people would come, but there are things the park is lacking in that would prevent them from coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itnotfair Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 ^You make some good points there. I think implementing some of those changes would improve guest experience more than a Scream! re-theme or even a Tony Hawk clone. But how can you market something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolliger&Mabillard Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 ^You can't. Marketing can only get you so far. Though these may be intangible attributes of the park you can't put in a commercial, it enhances the experience once you're there, rather than being the reason you came. I remember a while back (possibly 100 or so pages ago) during the Metro/Monorail discussion that the park shouldn't have added a transportation system because it's not "marketable". True. You're not going to see a spike in season pass sales if they add a monorail. But if you make it easier to access the park, people won't get tired as easily walking up and down hills all day, which opens up the potential for people to stay longer, which results in them spending more money, which means adding a transportation ride aided in park revenue, though it may not have been the main draw. Marketing is what will get people to check things out, but it's those intangible things the park could do more of to get people saying "wow, this park was better than I expected", or "I don't remember Magic Mountain being this nice". Marketing is telling your guests that your park is the best. Putting capital in general upkeep in things other than rides is showing them your park is the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreditCrazy Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 I think the park should get something new (which they already are, rumored coaster next year and Wiggles World soon after that) to hopefully bring people to the park, and then add another tram in the parking lot on a Saturday in July, or add more tables/seating in indoor resaurants, etc. That way when people (hopefully) come to the park for the new attraction, they will also notice how many improvements have been made and (hopefully) come back or even buy a season pass. SFMM got Terminator this year but they missed their chance to improve some other things in the park. People came (or are hopefully coming) for "the new ride" but imo not too much has been improved and while still not as bad as the "old Six Flags" it still has a lot of things that could be better (like B&M stated). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMountainMan Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Great point B&M I do agree with you on that. I was only arguing weather or not Bizarro was a better ride than Scream! is. I too would rather see SFMM spend more money on maintaining the park then a re-do of Scream because what you said is true, after all is said and done, a few years down the road people won't even remember that Scream! got re-done. To them it would probably just be a decent coaster that they would ride once or twice and then head over to a headliner attraction like X2 or Goliath. To me it seems like adding anything but a family coaster or a very extreme coaster is like throwing money out the window. Sure they added Terminator this year but it was needed due to the lack of a woodie. But I think that if next year they add a half decent coaster (not a big 'headliner' attraction) they are shooting themselves in the foot. It would suffer the same fate a Scream re-do would, people would be interested in it for the first year or two and then completely forget about it after that. It might sound bad but I really do believe that Magic Mountain does need another 'headliner' coaster in the park to get people back. I don't think that most people are really going to care if they get a version of THBS or something else. For example, if SFMM spent 2010 and 2011 putting all of its money into improving the park (a few flats here and there too) and then in 2012 put in a coaster that is bound to draw people it might have the effect of "wow I don't remember it being so nice here". Too many people in L.A. are still under the mindset that Magic Mountain is gangbanger heaven. To an extent it still is. Basically I believe that adding anything else but a major coaster is counter productive to Magic Mountain. Heck I'd be happier if they didn't add a coaster for the next few years like B&M said and then putting in a new 'staple' attraction to draw people in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy4Coasters! Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Hey quick question, does SFMM accept debit cards at the parking toll booth or is it cash only? I'm headed over there tomorrow so I was just wondering if I have to stop by the ATM in the morning before heading out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebl Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 SFMM could use some more benches. When it gets hot out there, people need a place to sit for a few minutes. I have been there a few times when there just wasn't a place to sit, and had to sit on a rock, fence, etc.---where they DON'T want you to sit. It's little things that can make a difference. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haiderodes Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Hey quick question, does SFMM accept debit cards at the parking toll booth or is it cash only? I'm headed over there tomorrow so I was just wondering if I have to stop by the ATM in the morning before heading out. Yes they do except debit/credit cards at the toll booths. Have fun! SFMM could use some more benches. When it gets hot out there, people need a place to sit for a few minutes. I have been there a few times when there just wasn't a place to sit, and had to sit on a rock, fence, etc.---where they DON'T want you to sit. It's little things that can make a difference. Eric While I do think some areas could use benches, I think the placement of some rocks in the park are meant to serve as benches. It seems that landscapers place more angular/pointy rocks where they dont want you to sit, and flatter larger rocks where they don't mind it. The rocks in front of the restrooms in Rapids Camp Crossing and in front of ex-Sierra Twist come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy4Coasters! Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Thanks for the info buddy, it's much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhslhs Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Is Six Flags still bankrupt? Because if they are, I don't think we'll see any large investments like benches, until they've formulated their plan for paying off their debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMountainMan Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 ^ Benches are large investments? And yes, they are in the process of going through bankruptcy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolliger&Mabillard Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 ^You really are officially bankrupt when buying beches is a large investment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexinla Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Just got a facebook message from SFMM asking to show your love for X2 on the tournament of coasters(hope you all voted as x2 is in the lead with 55%) In any case, some people I guess take there love towards X2 a little to "extreme" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperShawn Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 ^ Clearly a type X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolcalicoaster Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 ^^wow, i hope that isnt real! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexinla Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 btw, it is a "she" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebl Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 It is real, and it is a "she." Even though I'm not much for tattoos, that would have been nicer had it been about a third to half its size. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atem122 Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 You know you fail when: A) You get a tattoo of a coaster B) That tattoo gets critiqued even by coaster enthusiasts Buuuut, I call phony, that thing doesnt look real for some reason...most likely due to the fact that no one in the right mind would get that tattoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebl Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 ^ Trust me, it's real. I've seen it in person. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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