The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[Jew]

^Please use the search feature before posting.

[almightyfire]

We are beating a dead horse. The economy is the reason that all parks are suffering. Plane tickets and gas prices effect the sales at amusement parks. Technology also has put a damper on amusement park sales. People have become more lazy and stagnant due to ipods, gameboys, pc, mac, wii etc. No one leaves the house anymore. When i was a kid we couldnt wait to get home to go outside and play. Now u cant get a kid off the sofa without setting it on fire. No matter what Six Flags does at this time is gonna make people change their way of thinking or get them off the couch.

 

Mr. Shapiro, you will never get the Disney crowd never. Unless you are Endora or Dr. Bombay and u can magically make everyone change their direction on I-5. Just interchange every year with a coaster and then a flat the next. You will NEVER get that crowd ur seeking so if u wanna stay in business, don't abandon the people who are dedicated to you which are coaster enthusiast because Cedar POINT has been able to manage very well without adding the stupid little kiddie rides that u r trying to do because those kids only stay kids for a few years and they grow up to be adults much longer than kids.

 

Disney is a kiddie park, Universal is a virtual park and SIX FLAGS MAGIC MOUNTAIN is a thrill park.

 

When did the term THRILL PARK become blasphemous?

[Rct3man777]

Thomas Town is a strong brand for kids age 1-5 (perfect example is KidTums being entertained). How many strollers do you see when you're walking around MM on a typical day? Maybe 2. There's the explanation for TT being dead all the time.

 

Which is exactly why they need to market it. I don't know if you have been around the parents of a 1-5 year old kid lately, but I can tell you from experience they are looking to spend lots of money keeping their kid happy. That's two more people in your park spending money that would normally ignore the place until their kid was old enough to ride the coasters.

 

It's not the grand solution...but it's the foundation. If they're really serious about becoming a family destination.

 

People advertise kiddy rides? I've never seen a commercial in my life for a kiddie ride...Well then again I live in utah and all the theme park commercials are for the only theme park here...Lagoon.

[Wes]

Cedar POINT has been able to manage very well without adding the stupid little kiddie rides that u r trying to do because those kids only stay kids for a few years and they grow up to be adults much longer than kids.

 

Cedar Point added a kids area this year.

[FeelTheFORCE]

^ Yeah, I was a little confused by that statement as well. Not only have they added a kiddie area, but their motto for this year is "Families Rule."

[ebl]

I didn't go into detail in my TR a couple of pages back, but while I do think that Thomas Town is very nicely done, there isn't much to keep anyone there very long. A train ride, a coaster ride that won't allow you to ride if you're over 54", and a gift shop isn't enough.

 

Hopefully (and I'm sure it will happen), more is planned for the area.

 

Eric

[vedved82491]

Back to X2 being the only thing advertised and Thomas Town being underadvertised...

 

My guess is that the parks main aim (right now) is to continue raising attendance levels.

 

The park has had a reputation, over the past several years, of being the "Xtreme" park.

 

X2 being advertised is bound to bring more people into the park than Thomas Town would.

 

Sure Magic Mountain just opened a kids area, and maybe they will advertise it sometime soon, but will the GP care if they just opened a kids area with two rides? They could easily just say, "why bother" and head over to Disneyland or Legoland to get that satisfaction.

 

Magic Mountain, although working towards a "family-friendly" environment, is still labeled, talked about, and known as "the park with a lot of rollercoasters."

 

Fortunately, it seems the major positive changes around the park ARE starting to get out to people.

 

Also, I know next year's coaster is allegedly a family coaster, but a low height restriction doesn't necessarily mean many younger rides will go on it. I know people who too often get intimidated by a rides height, speed, or even sound. As excited as I am that the park is getting another coaster, I'm not sure it'll make a difference as far as "family-friendly" goes.

[cosmic hearse]

I think that if they would just tack on a few second clip of Thomas Town and a "And don't forget to bring the kids to see the new Thomas Town" it would pull in a decent amount of people. Thomas is a bigger brand than some people think. Even though it's just a train ride and a couple of other things parents with Thomas fan children will go. We have a Thomas store at a local mall and my sister would drive out a half hour to take my nephews there. They'd get a toy and be able to play in a small play area with other kids. Once a year an actual Thomas 'full size' Train stops by at a somewhat-local Train Station, they do a story time and the kids get to ride the train for a scenic fairly short ride. That event sells out so quick, and once again people drive out pretty far first to buy there tickets and then another distance to the train station just to hear a story and ride the train.

 

Parents with children who are into Thomas go to some great lengths, even if there are parks like Disneyland and Knotts in the same area I think they'd be bothered by their kids to go to Thomas Town.

 

Along with adding a few more rides in the area, I think if they would build a room or an area for parties and sell birthday party packages for kids it would sell well. Kind of like the birthday packages at Knotts in Camp Snoopy. But first the public has to know about it! Absolutely no one I know has any clue that a Thomas Town exists. I showed my sister pictures of it via interweb and she was like 'here's this at?'I told her it was at MM and as a result they are planning on going when they come to California next week.

[ebl]

Since Thomas the Tank Engine takes place on the Island of Sodor, I think some sort of boat ride would have helped to round out the area. Had time and budget allowed, it would have been nice to place the entire town on an island with a boat ride surrounding it.

 

But we'll see what happens in the years to come.

 

Eric

[Jew]

^^^Wouldn't it also make much more sense to post about the new coaster in the thread that is dedicated to discussion of the new coaster? You did in fact assume incorrectly, as this thread is more about general discussion/updates about the park/anything that isn't covered in other threads. There is no need to steer off that topic in this thread when we have another thread that is dedicated to the discussion of the new coaster.

 

However, If you were the first person to break the news about the coaster, it would be appropriate to post in here, as there would be no other thread on the topic. But if there is an existing topic, please be sure to post any news/information about the existing topic in the appropriate thread.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

"Thrillpark" became a taboo word when it stopped being profitable, or at least as profitable as they'd like it to be. If Shapiro is in fact chasing the family market then do what others do to make their mula. To quote Hank Hill, "Find the successful guy at work and copy him in every way."

It would be nice to see some type of themeing go into MM. It isn't as charming to pretend you're on some whimsical train ride or actually walking the streets of Gotham City with everyone wearing highlighter yellow shirts. Walt Disney made it impearative that You can't see outside of Disneyland while you're inside because it dilludes the themeing. What's the point of putting in a $20 million dark ride if you're not going to theme it? Every Six Flags park is generic (and they are striving more to reach that by removing "California" from it's entrance) Disney and Universal parks do so well because they're clean, themed, and have above-par guest service. Six Flags has neglected most, if not all of that in their "thrill park" years, which is why they're in the position the'yre in now. Is it getting better? Yes. Rides are opening on time more often, they are running at more capacity, that CSI show isn't bad. Are there things they could do better than they are now? Absolutely. Ditch the generic shirts and have uniforms based on department, area, etc. Sure it may cost more, but if you spend money on a generic product you're going to get a generic result. I think the park is moving in the right direction, but there are still things that are left untouched.

[Tiburon503]

Well, with being a thrill park, there are consequences Luckily, they really are turning that park around for the btter, but still some stuff that needs work. Wow, if you think about it, a lot is riding on this new coaster

 

Perhaps Mark Shapiro putting the park up for sale, virtually abandoning it for a year, and allowing a "park is closing" mentality to foster can be attributed to the attendance decline? Mark's own mouth dropped the 2006 attendance when he announced the park was unwanted and for sale that June. Smart companies DENY DENY DENY the sale of assets until the buyer's ink dries on the paper.

 

Jay Thomas may be a godsend, but marketing has failed to address the "park is closing" mentality. They need to restore the "building a better mountain" campaign with the quickness. A full court press of print and TV buys is needed. It might be wise to restore the old Magic Mountain logo and de-emphasize the damaged Six Flags branding in So.Cal.

[Rollerman87]

^ It all comes full circle. They need to advertise better and emphasize the Magic Mountain more than Six Flags part. Especially, they need to get rid of the mass produced cram and stuff commercials they have that use coasters from every Six Flags park. That is definitely a way where Cedar Fair does a little better, for they put the emphasis on the individual park, not on the entire company.

 

And I am getting really freaking annoyed arguing with people that SFMM is NOT closing. I let them ponder on why Six Flags just spent 10 million dollars refurbing X(2) and more adding Thomas Town and freshening up the park, and would still sell the park. I think, like Disney did Mike Eisner, Six Flags needs to give Shapiro the boot.

[Manic Monte]

I'm not sure they sure fire him (although if the parks don't turn around this year, his days are numbered), but he did permanant damage to SFMM with his ignorant rookie comments about the park, to the "LA" MEDIA no less.

 

I don't care how many family areas you open up, or how well you market them. If moms and dads don't feel it's safe taking their kids there, or if they feels the park is going to take their money and run, they're not going.

 

The LA area has too many other options. I really wish the company would just drop the Six Flags and market themselves as the "NEW" Magic Mountain. The Six Flags "Brand" seems to do more damage than good at this point.

[Rollerman87]

^Yeah, 'cause didn't a some kid just die at Six Flags?

[Manic Monte]

^ On the other hand, I have to credit Shapiro with some of the positive things happening (inside the parks) around the chain. SFMM hasn't looked this good since 2000, and I'm happy the park is in the process of an amazing 180 degree turn. I'm just afraid that at this point, no one will care.

[Scaparri]

You will NEVER get that crowd ur seeking so if u wanna stay in business, don't abandon the people who are dedicated to you which are coaster enthusiast because Cedar POINT has been able to manage very well without adding the stupid little kiddie rides that u r trying to do because those kids only stay kids for a few years and they grow up to be adults much longer than kids.

 

This theory is extremely flawed. SFMM will never reach their full competitive potential if they don't expand opportunities for children. Remaining a "thrill park" essentially decimates their market. Seriously, what can adding family rides hurt? It will only make the park more appealing to a greater audience. I really doubt that the park cares about "abandoning coaster enthusiasts." For one, they already have countless world class coasters. And for two, how many Disney or Universal fan boys are there on this site or any other coaster site? Sure, Disney and Universal parks have their thrilling rides, but I would never call any of their parks "thrill parks."

 

SFMM might not reach Disney or Universal level crowds, but adding family attractions will only increase their chances of tapping into the crowds that flock to the parks of their competitors.

 

Cedar Point added a kids area this year.

 

And to drive Wes' point home, CP actually has two other kiddie areas aside from the new Planet Snoopy, so they obviously see some benefit in adding these "stupid little kiddie rides."

[ebl]

And remember that at both West Coast Bash and on June 1, we were told that SFMM will once again "regain the coaster crown." So enthusiasts haven't been forgotten.

 

But the park started in 1971 as a family park. Even the brochure had on the front of it "The West's New Family Funland." Families have money. And that's what the company is aiming at.

 

One more thing---and I told Jay Thomas this in person---they need to charge $200 for the Xtreme Play Pass. Totally worth it for what you get, really. My own pass has paid for itself several times this year already---and the year is just half over.

 

Eric

[DBJ]

Re: the advertising.

 

I had read a few years back that SFMM in fact is not in charge of the advertising of the park, but the decision is made by SF's main execs back east.

 

The decision to advertise X2 is because they are 4 major family attractions that opened in competition; Simpsons at Universal, Toy Story Mania at DCA, Sesame Bay of Play at Seaworld, and Legoland's LKA. By comparison, advertising a circular train ride with unfinished and spartan theming isn't going to cut it against that. None of those other parks can match X2 however.

 

I hope they do continue in the family direction but realize that family doesn't mean suitable for toddlers, and that's it. I think part of SFMM's problem is that the kids area frequently makes the adults spectators and not participants in the experience with the kids.

 

As they move forward with their family initiative, I hope they bring in more kinds of attractions where kids & adults can be on the ride at the same time. Things like Legoland's LKA, and a 4D movie experience, or a coaster like Evil K., where kids & adults can enjoy the ride. Heck, there is a whole range of coaster experiences they can build (not Dark Knight), in-between Percy and X2. Hopefully not ultra short track length versions however.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

Dropping the Six Flags moniker is a double edge sword. Sure there might be a little less flack the park may catch, but without Six Flags as a sponser, how could they expand on the thrill end in the future? I don't see too many family parks adding any B&M flyers or Intamin hypers.

 

As for 200 bucks for a season pass.

 

I cant tell anyone through experience that it is difficult to get people to pay full price admission, much less upsell them anything. I bought a regular Play pass this year with a parking pass which came out to 95 dollars. Paying 105 more for a few flash passes and a 10% discount makes you straddle the fence at best.

[Revolucion]

Re: the advertising.

 

I hope they do continue in the family direction but realize that family doesn't mean suitable for toddlers, and that's it. I think part of SFMM's problem is that the kids area frequently makes the adults spectators and not participants in the experience with the kids.

 

As they move forward with their family initiative, I hope they bring in more kinds of attractions where kids & adults can be on the ride at the same time. Things like Legoland's LKA, and a 4D movie experience, or a coaster like Evil K., where kids & adults can enjoy the ride. Heck, there is a whole range of coaster experiences they can build (not Dark Knight), in-between Percy and X2. Hopefully not ultra short track length versions however.

 

I agree with you 100%. If I want to see my kids ride toddler rides why drive two hours and spend $200 bucks for the day when I can drive ten minutes for Chuck E Cheese? Thomas Town probably only works as a agnet for people within 20 miles of the park.

 

When Disneyland opened the Haunted Mansion in 1969 they broke attendance records that stood for twenty years! Several factors combined to make it such a big hit from the start:

Mystery factor-the Mansion itself had stood empty for five years while curious guests waited for it to open. It wasn't intended to sit empty for so long, but it helped to build excitement.

Family ride - it is a *family* ride. There are no age, height, or medical restrictions. Some kids may not *want* to ride, but they *can* ride. Magic Mountain needs more rides that families can not just ride together, but enjoy together.

High hourly capacity - 2,000 people an hour with a decent crew, 1,600 with a horrible crew.

Wow factor - forty years later the Haunted Mansion is still a highlight despite having relatively rudimentary animated figures that are much less sophisticated than the AA figures at Pirates.

[**McFly**]

I would pay $200 for an Extreme Play pass in a heart beat, it is well worth the money! $125 is an excellent value, too good in fact. I would rather both of the passes go up than be nickeled and dimed on everthing else in the park. I have always felt the passes were very affordable compared to other parks in the So Cal area.

 

I realize the economy isn't the best right now, but when you figure a few visits with a season pass your entertainment value is pretty good. When you go 10+ times a year it is a bargain!

[hemmy]

I was at SFMM last week.

 

Park was dirty, bathrooms filthy, staff was slow.

 

Other than that everything else was nice.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^Everything else?

What else is left?

[ZeroG001]

^^Really? I was at the park last week, too, on Tuesday. It was very clean. Staff was friendly at the restaurants, stores, etc. Some ride ops seemed bored though, and really tired. Lines were short, all rides never left the station except Tatsu, Deja Vu, and Superman. We rode X2 when it reopened around 4 and were one of first ones on! It was an amazing ride. Unlike my last visit in April, none of the rides broke down (except X2 earlier in the day) All the misters were on, too! The only bad part about my trip was there was no soap in the two bathrooms I used that day, one outside the park after you pass the metal detectors, and one across from Katy's Kettle near Tatsu. Overall, a really great day at the SFMM! It was my second trip to the park, and I still plan on making more in the future!