The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[Sexy No Jutsu]

^ No offense, but as a corporate trainer myself, you need to be doing more spying because if Jahan (a park guest) can pick it up then you guys should be able to as well.

 

What is the penalty for employees talking on cell phones, uniform not on properly, etc??? Is there one?

 

I agree with you but I have more sympathy for wrs because it's the same thing as someone with a car. They're told how to drive, the rules of driving, yet we still have TERRIBLE drivers. You, as a driver, see a person run a red light. The cops don't. People get away with things because they get lucky. It sucks yes, but it's hard for a policeman to be there all the time when this stuff happens. Same with the corporate trainer.

 

With this being that case, the workers on their cell phones who get caught should be fired, or at least given a warning.

[thomas2]

I do have a question: Everyone complains about the employees at SFMM. But what about employees from other SF parks? How are they? Is this whole bad-employees thing only at SFMM or do other SF parks also have that?

[Reggie_Ray]

The worst one I ever saw however happened while I was working the bird show one day. I walked out of my booth to go get lunch, and saw a small girl by herself and crying. I went over to her and asked her if she was lost, to which she just nodded. I proceeded to take her into the theater, while I called security to take her up to guest relations and report a lost child. When I made the call I was told by security that I should simply give her directions to guest relations and let her go herself. I informed them that she was only a little kid, to which they responded, "yes I know, you said that, tell her where guest relations is and when she gets there she can explain the situation, it's not our job to help lost guests." After a few more minutes of fighting, as well as informing the guy on the phone that I was going to report him directly to Del Holland, and that I would make his life a nightmare unless he got me some help, he finally caved and sent a security guard. After the girl had left one of the ushers came back in and tore me a new one for not going to lunch like I was susposed to. I told him what happened, and he responded, "your job is not to help lost kids, it's to run sound and eat lunch."

 

I had something very similar to that happen to me when I working there as well. I worked as a merchandise host and this back when Tatsu was still under construction. I was working at Superstore and this girl with asthma just finished climbing the hill. She then went to Superman and came back dehydrated and just collapsed. Her family helped her up and asked me if I can get a some help for them and possibly get a wheel chair. I called guest relations and told them the situation. They told me the exact same thing, "tell her where guest relatons is and we'll give her cold water and a wheel chair." I responded by saying she can't even walk, she's sitting on the floor in front of me with her family. The guy then told me "tell her family to carry her down here." I hung up on him and called human resources. They told me that what he did was unnaceptable and they told him to come up and help the girl. He came up, but had attitude because he had to walk all the way around the park and up the hill.

 

Another case of bad service was also at superstore. There was somene in a wheel chair who was all excited to go on superman for the first time. I was chatting with them for a while and then they went to wait in the queue. They came back to me about five minutes later and said the employees wouldn't let them on because the ride wasn't wheel chair accessible. I told them that wasn't true and I called guest relations. I told them the situation and they said "that's not our job, call ride operations, they'll deal with it." So I called ride operations and they were mad at me because they said I'm not a ride operator and that it's not my business. But soemone did come to help, but once again they were mad because they had to climb up the hill.

 

Magic Mountain really needs to do something about their general manager and their employees as well. Like Allen said, most of them are too lazy to do things and always say "That's not my job."

[AllenA07]

I actually recall having into the park and doing the exact thing that Wrs just mentioned. The training the park gave me was fine and I got the idea that if something needed to be done, you had to do it. That was never a big deal for me, and I'm sure there are employees like that. The problem is it is so hard to get fired at Magic Mountain (I'm convinced that short of theft or actually and litterly murdering a guest it's not possible) that people know they can screw around without any real consequence. When I worked there, the park had Scream Dollars, which would reward you with things like free food or money off at the employee store. While this was a neat concept, only twice in my entire time working there did I see somebody handing these out. I don't recall the exact rules governing how write up's work, but if I remember you get several warnings, and they fall off your record pretty quickly.

[RagingBullFan]

As to the question of how other Six Flags parks are here is my take on SFGAm.

 

Before employees can go to work at SFGAm we have to go through metal detector and it is sensitive enough that cell phones will set it off. So if you go through it and have your cell phone your going to be told to put your cell phone back in your car. If an employee is seen with a cell phone, even if they are on break ( even in the employee area) they can have their cell phone confiscated for the day. As at SFGAm cell phones are not allowed to be carried by seasonal employees who have direct guest interaction.

 

If anyone working at SFGAm were spotted with a cell phone as in the pictures posted from SFMM they would most likely be fired. SFGAm has very little tolerance for cell phones as the employees are supposed to be working, not chatting with other people on their phones.

 

I'm not sure if SFMM is using the new training system or is still on a in-house type training. SFGAm last year I believe went to a outside company to help with training and it has helped provide employees with a greater understanding of how to help people. Just because someone has years of experience doing something doesn't make them a good trainer, bring in a company whose job is to train people and you'll see a huge improvement.

[the_rock401]

I can't comment on the personell problems SFMM seems to have. However, what I CAN comment on is the structural integrity of Tatsu, Sky Tower, and the hill on which they sit.

 

I don't know the kind of soil on which the park is built, but based on the kind of weight the footers are supporting, and California's insane earthquake codes, they SHOULD be down to either bedrock or deep enough to not move. That having been said, anything can be broken off if you hit it hard enough. If the whole hill were to slide off in the direction of Revolution and the front plaza, some of the footers below the lift hill could be in trouble, as the weight of a saturated hill would certainly load footers out in a direction they are not designed to be loaded. And if the footers are buried in mud above the top of the concrete, torsional steel loading is totally different than torsional concrete loading.

 

Plants on the hillside will also affect a mudslide. Where trees and other plants have a long time to get rooted into the hillside, they help stabilize the soil a LOT. This is why I think that IF there is a mudslide, the Tatsu side of the hill will be more vulnerable than the Ninja side. The reason is that vegetation has been in the ground only a short time (less than a year), as compared with the 10+ years on the far side.

 

Paul "Civil Engineering 101" Miller

[TriboElectric]

At the end of the day the General Manager is responsible for the park,

That is who needs to be held responsible and take some accountability for the staffing issues and problems. If I were Snyder, I would have replaced the current GM and attempted to fix a park with a very high yearly (3million plus) attendance and closest to the one of the U.S's largest population Centers (LA) . There is so much potential we just need a good leader and a smart strategy. While I respect peoples opinions regarding them wanting to see this park closed down, I disagree with it. Magic Mountain is a great coaster park, it is one of the best in the US. For a majority of people who cannot afford to travel around the country or world in search of a decent park it would be a real shame to lose Magic Mountain. The park has major problems but it also has some very great potential and has some fantastic coasters. I hope the powers that be recognize this and replace the current GM with someone with the knowhow to make the park successfull in all departments.

It will require a real leader to make it happen though.

[Sir Clinksalot]

I'm not sure if SFMM is using the new training system or is still on a in-house type training. SFGAm last year I believe went to a outside company to help with training and it has helped provide employees with a greater understanding of how to help people. Just because someone has years of experience doing something doesn't make them a good trainer, bring in a company whose job is to train people and you'll see a huge improvement.

 

That's what our company does for certain training, mostly non-technical stuff. I actually have a meeting in about 20 minutes to see about becoming certified in Culture Shaping training that is performed at ALOT of companies.

 

This is the training your talking about, dealing with people, dealing with fellow employees, etc, etc, etc. And this is the type of training I want to get into. I've been doing the technical training for 2 years and I'm getting bored with it.

 

I don't know the kind of soil on which the park is built, but based on the kind of weight the footers are supporting, and California's insane earthquake codes, they SHOULD be down to either bedrock or deep enough to not move. That having been said, anything can be broken off if you hit it hard enough. If the whole hill were to slide off in the direction of Revolution and the front plaza, some of the footers below the lift hill could be in trouble, as the weight of a saturated hill would certainly load footers out in a direction they are not designed to be loaded. And if the footers are buried in mud above the top of the concrete, torsional steel loading is totally different than torsional concrete loading.

 

But, when the Sky Tower was built I don't think the quake laws were as strict as they are now. Also, to get those supports of Tatsu from where they are, 100+ feet on top of the hill, all the way to Bedrock ... that's DEEP!!! I also assume they are ... but who knows.

 

As Wes would say ... PTS!!!

[robbalvey]

I am getting really sick of all this and have been silent too long. Jahan posted a very realistic, non-biased report of SFMM and people are still going crazy.

 

For those of you who have good times at the park, fine, that's great. If you want it as your home park, freakin take it! I agree with others, I'd rather see it put out of its misery! You're totally entitled to your opinions on the park (even when it's based on 1 or 2 visits!) and those of us who go all the time are entitled to ours as well!

Agreed. I'm also sick of the people who have been to a park once, been out of the country once, been once and all of a sudden these people are "experts" and are telling us how we should think about such parks.

 

All I have to say in response to that is "Are you freaking SERIOUS?!?!"

 

I mean, we might not share the same opinions, but for christ freaking sakes we are there ALL THE TIME! Why can't you accept the fact that we might actually know what we're talking about regardless if someone's *single* visit might have been out of the norm.

 

It's not as though we come on here "bashing" parks for the sake of bashing them. We tell an honest story. Sometimes it's good...sometimes it's bad. But we've had a hell of a lot of experience with SFMM, and been traveling all around the world for parks.

 

Not saying that our "word" is right all the time, but I'm going to listen to someone who has a lot more experience with something over someone else who has done something once or twice in their life and acts as though they are the "expert."

 

/end rant.

 

--Robb

[TatsuXtreme]

you know, im not going to pass my judgement on this park just yet. It was the first amusement park that i ever went to, and i hate to see it going down hill the way it is.

 

The next time that im gonna go is march of 07. If things havn't even improved by then, then im gonna have to say tear it down.

[Sexy No Jutsu]

This year alone I've gone at least 30 times. Some days good, some days not so good. I honestly cringe when people say something about the park that is not an opinion, but it's just flat out wrong. They think they're the experts. Hell, I'm no expert, but going to that park numerous times for over 10 years, I've had my share of times there.

[mightypotato]

I mean, we might not share the same opinions, but for christ freaking sakes we are there ALL THE TIME! Why can't you accept the fact that we might actually know what we're talking about regardless if someone's *single* visit might have been out of the norm.

 

Its like that with anyone's home park. The people who go there all the time actually know what the park is like and can make good statements about that. Just because I've been to a park once or twice, does not mean that I am an expert and can comment on anything that is not related to my visit. Take Cedar Point for example. I've only been there a few times, and each time was a different experience. I have no idea what the park is like most of the time, and as such, shouldn't be able to comment on it.

 

Although, I still would like to see SFMM. You know, to see if everything is true or not...and Tatsu.

[kraxleRIDAH]

The worst one I ever saw however happened while I was working the bird show one day. I walked out of my booth to go get lunch, and saw a small girl by herself and crying. I went over to her and asked her if she was lost, to which she just nodded. I proceeded to take her into the theater, while I called security to take her up to guest relations and report a lost child. When I made the call I was told by security that I should simply give her directions to guest relations and let her go herself. I informed them that she was only a little kid, to which they responded, "yes I know, you said that, tell her where guest relations is and when she gets there she can explain the situation, it's not our job to help lost guests." After a few more minutes of fighting, as well as informing the guy on the phone that I was going to report him directly to Del Holland, and that I would make his life a nightmare unless he got me some help, he finally caved and sent a security guard. After the girl had left one of the ushers came back in and tore me a new one for not going to lunch like I was susposed to. I told him what happened, and he responded, "your job is not to help lost kids, it's to run sound and eat lunch."

 

That really pisses me off. I'm sorry you had to be put in that position in which you're doing the right thing and have to jump hurdles to take care of the situation. That's really not fair on your behalf.

 

The amusement park industry is about hospitality and patron services as much as it is about entertainment. To hear stories like that makes me want to hunt someone down.

[downunder]

As an overseas visitor who has been to SFMM 6 times (9 times ever) in the last 4 years, I've always given the park another chance because of the coasters but I always come away feeling ripped off and disappointed.

 

I guess part of it is that since I have first been to SFMM I have been fortunate enough to go to Cedar Point and also ride SROS and El Toro, so going to better parks and riding coasters far better than anything at magic mountain have decreased my appreciation of the park.

 

But the other part is that I come away from SFMM feeling, as a customer, that I have been treated with contempt; the poor operations (one train op, slow loading etc), smug service, the really disgusting overpriced food, lack of rides actually running - especially X (except in 2004). SFMM has really become a charmless place, and I only would go there again to ride X and that's about it.

 

I would qualify that by saying I am very selective about the times I go to the park, doing research in advance to go on "good days", because being on the other side of the pacific ocean I can't go every weekend - not that I would want to.

 

Just my opinion based on my experiences at the park.

[Sir Clinksalot]

Honestly, I just don't understand why SFMM seems to get a free pass with some people just because it's their "Home Park" or because it has 16 Coasters.

 

I have been going to SFMM since about 1980 ... I LOVE(D) Magic Mountain in the 80's and early 90's. Does it piss me off to no end to see what was once great now suck ass. ABSOLUTELY.

 

But I'm not going to sit back, say everything is okay and that the park doesn't suck.

 

Because it does.

[Gnome]

I too hate it when people say, "OMG Coasthsterths!" And praise it just for that. I mean coasters are great and all, but personally, I would just like 3 - 5 good coasters in a park, and the rest of the attractions can be various shows, dark rides, water rides, and flats. There's so much more to experience. Not to mention, there's no point in having 17 coasters if they aren't even all open, or if it takes forever to get on the ride.

 

I also find the large ammounts of forign workers to be annoying because half of them don't even know thier own policies. (IE guests with Xtreme Passes do in fact get 20% discounts off of food)

[arrowfanman]

Holy crap! I turn my back for a few hours and there's 4 pages of people pouring out their hearts and minds! I want to thank everyone for sharing their thoughts! Discussion seems a little "one sided" at this point, so I'll try and play the devils advocate for a second...

 

 

 

 

 

*sigh*...where to begin!

 

 

And I have pretty much given up on doing updates because they would be met by this same amount of fanaticism that poor Jahan is getting!

 

Awwww...you guys dont already miss me, do you?

 

Anyway, thanks for the rather in-depth post of the park, which seemed to elicit so much heated-discussion here! Although to be fair, I wouldn't say I was getting much "fanaticism" from this update. Everyone is entitled to share their own thoughts and feelings, regardless of their "expirence". I hold no "qualification" for discussions, as long as all responses are respected, at the least.

 

 

Although I have had my share of "fanaticism" in the past.

 

 

 

 

For Allen, Reggie, and other/former employees, I cant say that my expirences have been that different from yours. Thank you for sharing those stories with us. Granted, I feel that a lot of that attitude is (1) in a portion of the workforce anywhere and (2) can be attributed to the fact that SFMM is operated by mere teenagers, but yes, SFMM itself plays a large role in that.

 

 

 

 

 

Paul, thanks for the "civil engineering info"! From the looks and sounds of it, they aren't anticipating a large, sudden landslide persay, but more of a gradual erosion around the footers. I understand that these footers are buried a good 30-40 feet into the ground (I would watch them bend the rebar once a week ), however the more uniform top of the footers is only, no more than 10 feet deep, if not less. I think the worry is if land is to slowly erode away from the sides of these things, they may be susceptible to new, lateral forces which weren't aticipated. (I would assume that a footer is designed with the vertical forces in mind, as the land itself provides the lateral support). But I'm going to be a History major, so what do I know?!

 

 

 

 

 

As far as the "home park" comments are concerned...I perfectly understand where both sides are coming from. I can see Magic Mountain from my house--I grew up with the place.

 

I think what we all have to acknowledge is that it is perfectly ok to "like" Magic or even find it to be a "favorite", despite all of its shortcomings.

 

A quick, stupid example.... I can perfectly acknowledge that WDW's castle is superior to Disneylands. Face it...it's a better castle! But that doesn't mean I cant still hold Disneyland's as my favorite, for reasons beneath the surface.

 

Same thing applys here.

 

 

 

 

 

Hmmm...did I miss anything?

 

 

 

 

I guess I'll wrap this up....Magic Mountain is ill. Like any sick person, it has its good days and its bad, but either way you cant escape the fact, that it really is ill.

 

I have seen the park from the perspective of a guest, seasonal employee, and even "lower-management". The whole park seems to have established a standard lower than the industry standard and often struggles to even meet that. They've really created a little bubble for themselves. I dont think they always quite "get it". Especially after seeing the parks in Florida, I can safely say that the ride maintenence is laughable, ride operations are from "annoying" to "unbearable", and park-clenliness is on a "hit-or-miss" basis. As for the employees....they are under-age, under-trained, under-paid, under-staffed, under-supervised, under-appreciated, under-motivated, and over-worked.

 

Just my take.

 

 

 

 

Again, I want to thank everyone for their responses!

 

-Jahan

[colossus]

I have seen the park from the perspective of a guest, seasonal employee, and even "lower-management". The whole park seems to have established a standard lower than the industry standard and often struggles to even meet that. They've really created a little bubble for themselves. I dont think they always quite "get it". Especially after seeing the parks in Florida, I can safely say that the ride maintenence is laughable, ride operations are from "annoying" to "unbearable", and park-clenliness is on a "hit-or-miss" basis. As for the employees....they are under-age, under-trained, under-paid, under-staffed, under-supervised, under-appreciated, under-motivated, and over-worked.

 

Dude you hit it right on the head.

 

Chr!s-O

[haiderodes]

The SFMM staff makes the staff of the Circus Circus Adventuredome look good...and that's sad.

 

You know I had been wondering if Tatsu would have problems with the mountain landscape. The first time I saw it in person, I was suprised how they left that hill next to the queue...its such a steep cliff in comparison to how it was before. Even a few months later the foliage was still having a hard time growing in and thats what really holds the dirt together. I just think overall they did a good job with the ride, but I think they could have done a little better at incorporating into the landscape. There's so much foliage gone compared to before!

 

I liked the Freefall video. The girl saying "I'm not sure" had me dying laughing! And yes, it is good to have it back.

[wrs28330]

^ No offense, but as a corporate trainer myself, you need to be doing more spying because if Jahan (a park guest) can pick it up then you guys should be able to as well. Secondly, I realize it's only SFMM, but if you want your employees to do better, you have to give more than 8 1/2 hours of training.

 

What is the penalty for employees talking on cell phones, uniform not on properly, etc??? Is there one?

 

 

New Hires will go through a 4 hour park training learning park history/lore, and general rules of the park.

 

Then Department Training: from 6 to 8.5 hours depending on the department.

 

Then Individualized Training from 4 to 6.5 hours, depending on the department.

 

Then on the job training for a full shift, depeding on the department.

 

So you get between 20 -25 hours of training.

 

 

 

Penalties for cell phone use specifically is as follows:

 

1st offense: Verbal Warning

2nd offense: Verbal Warning, and log the incident on computer file

3rd offense: Written Warning

4th offense: Writtern Warning

5th offense: Possible Termination

 

However, at this point, I can't imagine anyone being fired for cell phone use because of staffing. I don't agree with that though. Guests' saftey is first and foremost. The problem is lack of accountablity, and under motivated employees as mentioned.

 

The last time we had a TR with face's, the proper supervisors were notified, and some sort of action had been taken.

 

When I'm working in the park, if I see an employee doing something wrong, I pull them to an off stage area, ask them to fix the problem, ask them for there full name, Dept., and supervisors' name. I think i'm known as "nazi supervisor" amongst the ODV employees. They are always on their phones, and i always stop them.

[Mr.Six]

Well, I suppose I should post my opinion. Where I feel a large portion of the problems involving employees on cellphones/out of uniform come from is the leads. Now, I know a few leads who will actually write up their crew members for continous disprespectful actions towards guests such as being on their cell phone. While although they for the most part are unpopular with ride ops, their crew is almost always on top of their game and at least in the leads' vision, aren't doing anything against park rules. While although the leads might be in charge, I hardly see them setting a good example. And its very refreshing to walk into a ride with a lead who doesn't put up with any type of BS. A lead is the supervisor of an attraction and they should stop worrying about how it'll look socially to fellow workers and should rise up and make it obvious that they are the ride ops' supervisor with the right to enforce park rules. Not all leads are like this, but too many of them are.

 

Its a common thing to see an employee walking around on their cell phone and getting stopped by either security, safety, or any department supervisor. But I'd be shocked if it ever went past anything other than a verbal warning.

 

I have more opinions but all of which have already been stated somewhere along this thread.

_six

[Sir Clinksalot]

However, at this point, I can't imagine anyone being fired for cell phone use because of staffing. I don't agree with that though. Guests' saftey is first and foremost. The problem is lack of accountablity, and under motivated employees as mentioned.

 

That's funny, because in my meeting yesterday with HR we were talking about the same things. We have people going through not 20 - 25 hours of training, but 5 to 6 WEEKS of training, who don't want to be there. They don't participate, have bad attitudes, show up late, etc. We inform the managers of this and nothing ever happens. It's because they are so happy to just get butt's in the seats they don't care.

 

Sounds like the same thing is happening. And frankly, it's sad.

[Guy T. Koepp]

Jahan.

 

Please don't stop doing any of your TR's because of all this "Fanatic" discussion. I personaly love them and get ultra informed by them. As you are a GP, former employee, and theme park enthusiast, your reports are honest, insightful, unbiasd, and most importantly entertaining. You have an awesome knack for pointing out all aspects you see of the park without being judgemental. You just report what you see at the park. Good, bad, otherwise. It doesn't matter. Keep up the good work.

 

Let's face facts people. Jahan's camera doesn't lie. (Unless he's a photoshop jedi.) In which case... ...F*** you Jahan, you piece of photoshopping S***! I can't believe you've been duping us all into believing your fair and balanced TR's. Who do you think you are, FOX news? I hate you Jahan! I hate you so very much! I hope your nappy hair is cursed with a years worth of 100% humidity.

 

You gave me faith in the youth of our nation, then spit in my face. I'd expect as much from Ryan. But not you. Noooooo! Not you! You were like the son I'd never had. If I didn't have that other one.

 

Thanks Jahan! Thanks for destroying my pristine, crystal clear, vision of you leading our great country into the next century. You can now twist the knife you have placed squarely between my shoulderblades. Thanks Jahan. Thanks for nothing!

 

Guy "I weep for our youth." Koepp

 

Dude! You know your awesome!

 

Never stop!

[kraxleRIDAH]

Ya, another vote for appreciating Jahan's great spy photos and humorous way of going about it. If anything, it's stuff we'd see at the park regardless -- what's the use in arguing the fact that photos can't lie (in the case of non-doctored ones, such as Jahan's).

 

It was an update as much as any other of the sorts during the off-season. If I learned anything from his latest installment, it shows how the park is still in the gutter. And that's the truth.

[socalMAN123]

Heading up to the Mountain tomorrow, I'll be sure to post an update. Back on the current discussion, I really appreciate Jahan's updates. They tell me what's going on at SFMM and keep me plugged in with the park. Great job Jahan and keep up the great work!

---Brent