The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[JT325]

I need advice!

 

Does anyone know if Revolution will be running without VR in the next few months? I heard it was running as non-VR Revo recently... and I want plan a trip when it is non-VR. Not that I wouldn't want to try out the VR, I want to get some quality ride time on non-VR Revo.

 

I'm going out in July with family, but considering a short trip earlier (perhaps April), to get some Revo rides. And maybe hop down to Knotts for a bit too.

 

Any input is appreciated!

 

^Also, I couldn't help but think about all the recent rain might have been very "nourishing" for Apocaloid. Some woodies have built in sprinkler systems, and I know Boss in St. Louis gets hosed down now and then. Keeps everything a little softer.

Edited February 28, 2017 by JT325

[jonskinny12]

I first rode Apocalypse in August/September of 2014 and while it was a little rough, it was amazing and a huge surprise hit for me. On that trip I rode it more than any other coaster in the park (8 times). When I went back in February 2016 it had sadly gotten quite a bit worse, and then in late September 2016 it was bad enough that twice was almost too much for me. And I put The Voyage at the top of my list along with Maverick and Millennium Force, so I don't hate rough coasters. I actually rode The Voyage 27 times over two days at HWN in 2015.

 

I can only hope that the current work they're doing on Apocalypse makes some amount of difference because it's really a great ride.

[MagicMountainMan]

They are currently reinstalling Tatsu's lift motor so maybe they will actually get it open soon.

[williamj2543]

They are currently reinstalling Tatsu's lift motor so maybe they will actually get it open soon.

Going on the 19th of March, I really hope it will be up!

[edgeboy]

This is probably the price for having so many coasters in one park... while it's great for the fan, the maintenance gets tougher. Imagine spinning plates on the end of poles, like the old circus trick. The more you have, the tougher it is.

 

Even it's nearest coaster count competitor, Cedar Point, has a large off season to maintain. SFMM basically year round, so that makes it even more difficult. In that regard, I'm surprised they manage to keep the rides in as good condition as they are.

[williamj2543]

This is probably the price for having so many coasters in one park... while it's great for the fan, the maintenance gets tougher. Imagine spinning plates on the end of poles, like the old circus trick. The more you have, the tougher it is.

 

Even it's nearest coaster count competitor, Cedar Point, has a large off season to maintain. SFMM basically year round, so that makes it even more difficult. In that regard, I'm surprised they manage to keep the rides in as good condition as they are.

I guess so, living in Canada and only really visiting midwestern parks the concept of coasters being down DURING the season for an extended period of time is foreign to me. Also makes me wonder how year-round parks even announce/release new rides, as in the parks I go to there is a set beginning and end to each season.

[coasterbill]

^^ This is partially true, but they don't deserve a complete pass either.

 

With a year-round park, rides need to go down for scheduled maintenance (though they are weekends-only so some rides can be rehabbed during the week, but with major rides like coasters you're dealing with a much more time consuming process).

 

That being said, they seem to be way understaffed and incredibly cheap. Tatsu shouldn't be down this long, Goliath was down for about half a year in 2015 because of a broken lift chain (by comparison, Cedar Point generally fixes / replaces broken lift chains in about 3 days), Apocalypse shouldn't be down this long unless they're doing major re-tracking (which by all accounts, they're not), they frequently run 1 train on busy days for coasters that have 3 where they could easily be rehabbing one at a time... sorry, the seasonal nature of the park is part of the problem but being understaffed / cheap is a big deal also.

[coasterlvr]

I need advice!

 

Does anyone know if Revolution will be running without VR in the next few months? I heard it was running as non-VR Revo recently... and I want plan a trip when it is non-VR. Not that I wouldn't want to try out the VR, I want to get some quality ride time on non-VR Revo.

 

I'm going out in July with family, but considering a short trip earlier (perhaps April), to get some Revo rides. And maybe hop down to Knotts for a bit too.

 

Any input is appreciated!

 

^Also, I couldn't help but think about all the recent rain might have been very "nourishing" for Apocaloid. Some woodies have built in sprinkler systems, and I know Boss in St. Louis gets hosed down now and then. Keeps everything a little softer.

 

either they did a soft opening, or it's back to VR now. haven't really paid attention to when it was going back to VR. so you'll probably have to wait in the long line and refuse the headset if you don't want the VR for at least a few months.

[JT325]

I need advice!

 

Does anyone know if Revolution will be running without VR in the next few months? I heard it was running as non-VR Revo recently... and I want plan a trip when it is non-VR. Not that I wouldn't want to try out the VR, I want to get some quality ride time on non-VR Revo.

 

I'm going out in July with family, but considering a short trip earlier (perhaps April), to get some Revo rides. And maybe hop down to Knotts for a bit too.

 

Any input is appreciated!

 

^Also, I couldn't help but think about all the recent rain might have been very "nourishing" for Apocaloid. Some woodies have built in sprinkler systems, and I know Boss in St. Louis gets hosed down now and then. Keeps everything a little softer.

 

either they did a soft opening, or it's back to VR now. haven't really paid attention to when it was going back to VR. so you'll probably have to wait in the long line and refuse the headset if you don't want the VR for at least a few months.

 

Thank you for your input! The idea of coming all the way out there from Chicago, and then watch hours pass while all those empty seats go out... I wish Six Flags had a "fill empty seats" pass. I would totally be in.

[joelwee]

The new VR debuted last weekend. AFAIK, it will be on for the rest of the year. I went on Sunday, but didn't feel like waiting in the long line. I'll wait until spring, when they're open every day, but everyone is still in school.

[susie zueck]

^^ This is partially true, but they don't deserve a complete pass either.

 

With a year-round park, rides need to go down for scheduled maintenance (though they are weekends-only so some rides can be rehabbed during the week, but with major rides like coasters you're dealing with a much more time consuming process).

 

That being said, they seem to be way understaffed and incredibly cheap. Tatsu shouldn't be down this long, Goliath was down for about half a year in 2015 because of a broken lift chain (by comparison, Cedar Point generally fixes / replaces broken lift chains in about 3 days), Apocalypse shouldn't be down this long unless they're doing major re-tracking (which by all accounts, they're not), they frequently run 1 train on busy days for coasters that have 3 where they could easily be rehabbing one at a time... sorry, the seasonal nature of the park is part of the problem but being understaffed / cheap is a big deal also.

Totally agree with you on this. Last Saturday Batman was only running one train and it's line hovered anywhere from 90 to 120 mins. Just don't see why they can't utilize the three trains that they have on most coasters. Plus, during off season MM is closed Monday through Friday, which gives them more than enough time to preform maintenance on rides. Whereas, Disneyland is able to keep 5 trains running on Big Thunder Mountain year-round despite the fact that they're open 365 days a year. And yeah yeah I do realize that there is a huge price difference between DL and MM, but I wouldn't mind MM raising admission prices by say 20% if that meant increasing the size of their maintenance staff.

[williamj2543]

^^ This is partially true, but they don't deserve a complete pass either.

 

With a year-round park, rides need to go down for scheduled maintenance (though they are weekends-only so some rides can be rehabbed during the week, but with major rides like coasters you're dealing with a much more time consuming process).

 

That being said, they seem to be way understaffed and incredibly cheap. Tatsu shouldn't be down this long, Goliath was down for about half a year in 2015 because of a broken lift chain (by comparison, Cedar Point generally fixes / replaces broken lift chains in about 3 days), Apocalypse shouldn't be down this long unless they're doing major re-tracking (which by all accounts, they're not), they frequently run 1 train on busy days for coasters that have 3 where they could easily be rehabbing one at a time... sorry, the seasonal nature of the park is part of the problem but being understaffed / cheap is a big deal also.

Totally agree with you on this. Last Saturday Batman was only running one train and it's line hovered anywhere from 90 to 120 mins. Just don't see why they can't utilize the three trains that they have on most coasters. Plus, during off season MM is closed Monday through Friday, which gives them more than enough time to preform maintenance on rides. Whereas, Disneyland is able to keep 5 trains running on Big Thunder Mountain year-round despite the fact that they're open 365 days a year. And yeah yeah I do realize that there is a huge price difference between DL and MM, but I wouldn't mind MM raising admission prices by say 20% if that meant increasing the size of their maintenance staff.

 

Raising prices by 0.5% would likely cover a huge maintenance budget with the types of revenues they get.

[alexinla]

^^ This is partially true, but they don't deserve a complete pass either.

 

With a year-round park, rides need to go down for scheduled maintenance (though they are weekends-only so some rides can be rehabbed during the week, but with major rides like coasters you're dealing with a much more time consuming process).

 

That being said, they seem to be way understaffed and incredibly cheap. Tatsu shouldn't be down this long, Goliath was down for about half a year in 2015 because of a broken lift chain (by comparison, Cedar Point generally fixes / replaces broken lift chains in about 3 days), Apocalypse shouldn't be down this long unless they're doing major re-tracking (which by all accounts, they're not), they frequently run 1 train on busy days for coasters that have 3 where they could easily be rehabbing one at a time... sorry, the seasonal nature of the park is part of the problem but being understaffed / cheap is a big deal also.

Totally agree with you on this. Last Saturday Batman was only running one train and it's line hovered anywhere from 90 to 120 mins. Just don't see why they can't utilize the three trains that they have on most coasters. Plus, during off season MM is closed Monday through Friday, which gives them more than enough time to preform maintenance on rides. Whereas, Disneyland is able to keep 5 trains running on Big Thunder Mountain year-round despite the fact that they're open 365 days a year. And yeah yeah I do realize that there is a huge price difference between DL and MM, but I wouldn't mind MM raising admission prices by say 20% if that meant increasing the size of their maintenance staff.

 

Batman has only two trains and is always down to one train operation in February since the 1990's. Goliath was not down for half a year and in general the SFMM bashing here is getting tired

[Sportsdude360]

I have never known Batman at SFOT to run anything less two trains, even on slow days. As for Goliath being down for so long, I can honestly say I've never seen anything like this happen on Titan. Although SFOT isn't a year round park, it's off season is relatively short.

[coasterbill]

Batman has only two trains and is always down to one train operation in February since the 1990's. Goliath was not down for half a year and in general the SFMM bashing here is getting tired

 

Oh, you're right, how silly of me, I'm getting my hilariously long Magic Mountain lift chain closures confused. Goliath was down from April 4th 2015 until July 17th (over 3 months) for something that generally takes Cedar Point between 3 and 7 days to fix. X2's chain broke sometime in August of 2013 and was down until late January... that was the one that was closed for half a year. Sorry, it's easy to get these hilarious maintenance nightmares confused since there are so many of them.

[boldikus]

in general the SFMM bashing here is getting tired

 

All 4,929 pages of it?

[JT325]

And now, a collective hug for Magic Mountain. Rejoice nerds! Revolution is running with out those hideous shoulder bars!

 

All parks have issues. As long as it's still there, there can always be operational improvements. When the park was going to be sold (~10 years ago??), I imagined Cedar Fair purchasing it... then I thought one of the first things they would do is remove Revolution. And both flumes.

Puppies and Kittens...

 

and Skyrides...

Edited March 1, 2017 by JT325

[Domm]

The new VR debuted last weekend. AFAIK, it will be on for the rest of the year. I went on Sunday, but didn't feel like waiting in the long line. I'll wait until spring, when they're open every day, but everyone is still in school.

 

whats a good day/week for this????

[Cj1990]

Batman has only two trains and is always down to one train operation in February since the 1990's. Goliath was not down for half a year and in general the SFMM bashing here is getting tired

 

I haven't really seen any bashing. People are stating facts. The sad part is that the facts are all bad news. Things that other parks with more rides and attractions are capable of staying on top of. That's not bashing. It's the reality.

[joelwee]

The new VR debuted last weekend. AFAIK, it will be on for the rest of the year. I went on Sunday, but didn't feel like waiting in the long line. I'll wait until spring, when they're open every day, but everyone is still in school.

 

whats a good day/week for this????

 

Spring breaks for the local schools are in late March/early April, so mid-week, late April is a safe bet for no crowds.

 

Goliath was not down for half a year and in general the SFMM bashing here is getting tired

 

Indeed. If you really don't like SFMM, feel free to stay home so the park will be less crowded for those of us who do enjoy it.

 

I haven't really seen any bashing. People are stating facts. The sad part is that the facts are all bad news. Things that other parks with more rides and attractions are capable of staying on top of. That's not bashing. It's the reality.

 

Those other parks you speak of: (1) are closed during the winter. They don't have to spend money on operating the park during their off-seasons, and are able to devote more revenue to maintenance. Since their rides are only operated half the year, there is not nearly as much wear and tear as there is at a year-round park like SFMM. (2) typically have 10 or fewer roller coasters (with the exception of Cedar Point). These parks focus more on flat rides, which are easier and cheaper to maintain than roller coasters.

 

Yes, SFMM's maintenance department leaves a lot to be desired, but there is plenty about SFMM that makes it enjoyable. With its 3 coasters that are currently closed, they still have more coasters open (excluding the kiddie coasters) than most other parks have to begin with.

[coasterbill]

A few things...

 

They don't have to spend money on operating the park during their off-seasons, and are able to devote more revenue to maintenance.

 

What? The park is open in the winter because it's profitable for them to be open in the winter. Sure this means they have extra expenses, but the additional revenue outweighs the expenses and makes that a moot point because now they have more capital to work with. We know that the additional revenue must outweigh the expenses because if it didn't, then they wouldn't be open in the winter.

 

typically have 10 or fewer roller coasters (with the exception of Cedar Point). These parks focus more on flat rides, which are easier and cheaper to maintain than roller coasters.

 

The size of the maintenance team should scale up or down based on the amount of labor that's required. If the maintenance team can't keep up with the demand then they need to have a larger maintenance department. This is really common sense. Personally, I don't have a major issue with rides running 1 train in the slow season (assuming they only have 2... when they do things like run 1 train on Scream when it has a 60 minute wait people have every right to be pissed), that's fine. I also don't have an issue with scheduled maintenance if actual maintenance is being done. What I do have a problem with is when rides are down way longer than they need to be, either as a budget cut or because the maintenance team for whatever reason doesn't have the ability to make repairs in a timely manner. 3+ months for a lift chain for Goliath, 6 months for a lift chain for X2 and Apocalypse being down for 3 months with no visible track work going on (by all accounts) are kind of indefensible.

 

None of this means it's a bad park, but they don't get a complete pass either. Their maintenance / rehab schedule has been raising eyebrows for years.

[edgeboy]

I think the point is that SFMM is a unique park that is in a one of a kind situation, and it's easy to forget that. Aside from Cedar Point (which does have an off season), name another year round park with as many coasters.

 

Being so much in the forefront means they have no other park to compare their maintenance needs. So they have to figure it out as they go. And having so many, it's perfectly natural that the ball gets dropped from time to time. Even if maintenance is on top of things, and know something needs to be done or fixed, it also doesn't mean there's an immediate budget to fix it right away. There's only so much money to go around, so one must pick and choose what gets done.

 

By saying all this, I'm not giving them a "get out of jail" free card. Given how long things like this have been happening, yes, they should expand their maintenance department. Maybe it's not in the budget. Who knows? Maybe they have bitten off more than they can chew. But I also don't see them closing/demolishing rides just to save on maintenance costs, so they just have to make the best of it.

 

I do like the point of joelwee, who stated that even with so many rides down, they still have more coasters than most parks at full capacity. Kinda tells us how spoiled we've become.

[JT325]

Way back, Magic Mountain had extra trains for everything. They had 10 (ten!) for the original Colossus in 1978 (the most they ever ran was 6, apparently). I know Revo had 6 (but ran 5?), Ninja, Psyclone and Viper also had extra trains I believe.

 

^You have a very good point. The payoff of having a cheap season pass when the park is dead... is not everything is running at capacity.

 

But didn't the CEO triple his salary to $12M when he got SF numbers up? I can't stand that stuff... seems like people who don't care too much about the park are in charge; they make the parks temporarily profitable, then are on to their next gig. I know I know, it's a business. But like Magic Mountain, many people here in Chicago won't go to Great America anymore. SF has had so many serious operational issues. I mean, you keep running out of ice in the summer? After 40 years? Ok, off soap box.

[VegasBaby]

I think the point is that SFMM is a unique park that is in a one of a kind situation, and it's easy to forget that. Aside from Cedar Point (which does have an off season), name another year round park with as many coasters.

 

Being so much in the forefront means they have no other park to compare their maintenance needs. So they have to figure it out as they go. And having so many, it's perfectly natural that the ball gets dropped from time to time. Even if maintenance is on top of things, and know something needs to be done or fixed, it also doesn't mean there's an immediate budget to fix it right away. There's only so much money to go around, so one must pick and choose what gets done.

 

By saying all this, I'm not giving them a "get out of jail" free card. Given how long things like this have been happening, yes, they should expand their maintenance department. Maybe it's not in the budget. Who knows? Maybe they have bitten off more than they can chew. But I also don't see them closing/demolishing rides just to save on maintenance costs, so they just have to make the best of it.

 

I do like the point of joelwee, who stated that even with so many rides down, they still have more coasters than most parks at full capacity. Kinda tells us how spoiled we've become.

 

Another factor to consider is that the companies that built Goliath and X2 are no longer in business. So when those lift chains broke, they had to find someone who could custom manufacture replacements and this resulted in extended down times. It's a completely difference scenario than if a lift chain went down on Batman or Green Lantern. On my last visit to CP, TTD and Maverick both broke down multiple times each day. However, I don't see people complaining about how terrible CP's maintenance staff are or how cheap the park is.

[JGuy]

Another factor to consider is that the companies that built Goliath and X2 are no longer in business. So when those lift chains broke, they had to find someone who could custom manufacture replacements and this resulted in extended down times. It's a completely difference scenario than if a lift chain went down on Batman or Green Lantern. On my last visit to CP, TTD and Maverick both broke down multiple times each day. However, I don't see people complaining about how terrible CP's maintenance staff are or how cheap the park is.

 

S&S purchased Arrow's assets and still makes 4D coasters. Lack of replacement parts wasn't what caused X2 to be closed for so long.