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The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread


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Went at 8...hit a u-turn at the end of the cones, parked 3 row back 2nd spot in, there were a ton of empty spaces in the 1st lot...it took til 1 to do all the mazes and a 10 minute wait for ninja...tatsu was maybe a half hour at midnight ish...was just the 1st row of the queue full...full throttle was about 45. Viper was probably 10-15 minutes....do the mazes 1st. Save rides for the last 2 hours, seems to thin out pretty well then. Definately could have got more rides in we were just walking around taking our time...didnt really feel much like rides, just a fun night out. Aftermath 2 and toys were the best 2 mazes, we thought. I felt like the park was overall themed better last year, more fog, lazers, just thought the scare zones were better last year, anyone else agree?....didnt make it to territory twisted tho, had to save something for next time...

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Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the first drop on Viper was reprofiled at one point. I seem to recall having seen an old POV where the banking at the bottom of the first drop is quite different. Unfortunately I'm not able to find that video. Can someone confirm that it's not just my imagination?

 

You're not wrong. The bottom of Viper's drop actually was quietly re-profiled at some point during it's first couple years of operation (Exact year/date is completely unknown). The videos below show proof of this change though.

 

Here is the original drop (skip to 6:36) which you can see used to have a harsh unbanked snap as it leveled out at the bottom.

 

[youtu_be]

[/youtu_be]

 

And here is the current drop as it is today (skip to 2:29) which you can notice is far smoother and snap free.

 

[youtu_be]

[/youtu_be]
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I can't see Six Flags putting a coaster over 20M into any of their parks. The reason they've benn RMCing and placing "cookie cutter" rides in is because they're cheap. We have to remember that SF was in bankruptcy a few years ago. That doesn't just go away this quickly.

 

While taking a break from the larger investments has certainly made sense from a financial, and stability standpoint for SIx Flags, I definitely think they will install 20M coasters again, less liberally, when they are ready. And if they are going to do so, they'll do it in places like SFMM, SFGAdv, and SFGAm. Their largest and highest attended parks, where they're going to get plenty of ROI.

 

And to the fellow who mentioned a Giga up there being more impressive looking than a Dive, you need to realize that you're saying that as an enthusiast. WE are more impressed with Giga coasters. GP will look at that, and say "Hey, it's just like Goliath, only higher!" Now, that's not to say it wouldn't be visually impressive, but from a GP "Oh man! Look at that! It's straight down! So scary!" perspective, a Dive has a lot more of an impact. At least that is what I have observed in regard to the GP response to Valravn.

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Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the first drop on Viper was reprofiled at one point. I seem to recall having seen an old POV where the banking at the bottom of the first drop is quite different. Unfortunately I'm not able to find that video. Can someone confirm that it's not just my imagination?

 

You're not wrong. The bottom of Viper's drop actually was quietly re-profiled at some point during it's first couple years of operation (Exact year/date is completely unknown). The videos below show proof of this change though.

 

Here is the original drop (skip to 6:36) which you can see used to have a harsh unbanked snap as it leveled out at the bottom.

 

Sweet, thanks for finding that video! Good to see I'm not making things up...

 

The original transition is actually quite interesting. On most older Arrows the unbanking is done after the turn is over, but here the banking is going back to 0 practically before the turn is over. I wouldn't be surprised if this ride pulled some significant outward lateral G-forces at the bottom of the drop.

Clipboard02.jpg.9b817cfbc4db046332c94b99acc65c3d.jpg

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I still remember when Viper was new. This attached picture (on ride pic of me and sister) is 20+ years old, yet at that time, we absolutely loved the ride. Waiting 2-3+ hours in line was just the norm when it was new.

 

Fast forward to last year - sister hadn't ridden on Viper since this picture was taken. I'm usually game for anything (even rides I don't like such as Corkscrew & a last ride on MeanStreak last month), but I warned her she might not enjoy Viper as much as we did when we were young. I was right - she was done and never desires another ride on it.

 

I'll be going to KBF & SFMM next month, so for memory sake, I'll take a couple last rides on Viper (assuming the wait is less than 2-3 trains, which I doubt will be an issue) knowing it likely will be the next one scrapped for something better. My nostalgic last ride(s) on it will probably help remind me how rough it has become, and I won't miss it!

 

 

This is so cool... damn, nostalgia. Time flies

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Sounds like the park was a bit busier than expected this past weekend? I'm going this weekend and hoping for some lighter crowds. I was under the impression that the first few weeks of Fright Fest were generally pretty light. I'll be arriving sometime late Saturday afternoon and will be leaving Sunday evening. Any tips for the coasters this weekend?

 

I'm excited to hear about the improvement of Apocalypse because that was a really nice surprise for me a few years ago but I was pretty disappointed with it earlier this year. I'm really looking forward to some late night rides on that, TC (hopefully without all the bees...), FT, and Tatsu.

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Wait, Arrow re-profiled the turn after the last drop after the coaster opened? I guess now we know why Six Flags and Cedar Fair don't work with Arrow any more.

 

Six Flags seems to be pretty happy with S&S lately. Or got a deal too good to refuse.

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I'm sure they got a great deal, but I was ripping the hordes of people who've decided that Cedar Fair doesn't work with Intamin because of the "problems" with Maverick and I305 where they needed to alter the track layout as if that's not a common occurrence. This is literally the same exact thing.

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Wait, Arrow re-profiled the turn after the last drop after the coaster opened? I guess now we know why Six Flags and Cedar Fair don't work with Arrow any more.

 

Six Flags seems to be pretty happy with S&S lately. Or got a deal too good to refuse.

 

Arrow has been dead for 15 years. S&S/Sansei is 3 asset sales/management teams separated from the company that built X. Calling S&S/Sansei "Arrow" is like equating Ferrari and AMC.

Edited by DirkFunk
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I'm aware of that. But the current senior management team is still made up of people who were with S&S/Arrow during the times of X and Hypersonic. I imagine many on the front lines stayed with the company as well.

 

Time (and money) will heal all wounds...especially considering that both Six Flags and Cedar Fair still have to turn to S&S for parts and technical support no matter what happened.

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I'm aware of that. But the current senior management team is still made up of people who were with S&S/Arrow during the times of X and Hypersonic.

 

That may not be the case. There is no one from Arrow on the current senior management team roster listed here:

 

http://www.engineeringexcitement.com/our-team/

 

I dug and found one name possibly still associated with the company.

 

I imagine many on the front lines stayed with the company as well.

 

It is possible that some of these people stuck around, but not necessarily the case since S&S simply purchased the assets in bankruptcy. We know two of them are with Ride Centerline. I doubt at the end of the company's existence that they had an army of other engineers waiting to build something.

 

Time (and money) will heal all wounds...especially considering that both Six Flags and Cedar Fair still have to turn to S&S for parts and technical support no matter what happened.

 

Buying legacy parts from a company that bought assets from a company that bought assets from a company that bought assets isn't the same as buying a new ride from a manufacturer you sued into nonexistence.

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I can't see Six Flags putting a coaster over 20M into any of their parks. The reason they've benn RMCing and placing "cookie cutter" rides in is because they're cheap. We have to remember that SF was in bankruptcy a few years ago. That doesn't just go away this quickly.

 

While taking a break from the larger investments has certainly made sense from a financial, and stability standpoint for SIx Flags, I definitely think they will install 20M coasters again, less liberally, when they are ready. And if they are going to do so, they'll do it in places like SFMM, SFGAdv, and SFGAm. Their largest and highest attended parks, where they're going to get plenty of ROI.

 

And to the fellow who mentioned a Giga up there being more impressive looking than a Dive, you need to realize that you're saying that as an enthusiast. WE are more impressed with Giga coasters. GP will look at that, and say "Hey, it's just like Goliath, only higher!" Now, that's not to say it wouldn't be visually impressive, but from a GP "Oh man! Look at that! It's straight down! So scary!" perspective, a Dive has a lot more of an impact. At least that is what I have observed in regard to the GP response to Valravn.

Yes they will eventually, Howvever it will not be next year. Keep in mind, they don't just spend money on rides and attractions every year, there's upkeep and property taxes on every park they have. That includes water usage power. That also does not include staff wages. SF has ALOT of parks. It'll be a few more years.

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You're not wrong. The bottom of Viper's drop actually was quietly re-profiled at some point during it's first couple years of operation (Exact year/date is completely unknown). The videos below show proof of this change though.

Great find! It always appeared to me VIper's first drop was not a smooth, nearly constant angle sweeping curve all the way down like the ones found on on Shockwave and GASM.

 

HD POVs of the first drop clearly show (about 1/2 of the way down) the track has a weird (but not violent) change in angle. Now it makes sense. From the videos, it appears the original design of the first drop was indeed a constant radius, consistent angle almost all the way to the bottom. I would imagine the original transition from the first drop curve in to the straight track leading up in to the first loop was one of those nasty Arrow neck snappers. To fix that, they reduced the first drop roll angle mid-way down so the transition was much flatter by the time it got to the bottom. You can really see the transition well in the second video. Mystery solved (for me, anyway)!

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I'm aware of that. But the current senior management team is still made up of people who were with S&S/Arrow during the times of X and Hypersonic. I imagine many on the front lines stayed with the company as well.

 

Time (and money) will heal all wounds...especially considering that both Six Flags and Cedar Fair still have to turn to S&S for parts and technical support no matter what happened.

 

Six Flags is clearly beyond the debacle of the Hypersonic era, they have bought 6 Free Fly Coasters from S&S in the last few years. They have hitched their wagon to S&S and the reliability of the 4D free fly's. It's one of the 2 hyped rides that they are cloning. The other being the Justice league, which is made by Sally Corp.

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