The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[Eaanderson10]

Fright Fest starts tonight.. who's going?

[xstech25]

It's a damn shame if Terminator has gotten rough. It always makes me nervous when parks add these really fast relentless wooden coasters, because if they're not committed to baby it and constantly spend money, they are going to become unbearable. And lets be serious SFMM is a huge park with probably little maintenance staff, it isn't a park that is going to spend much more than it needs to keep things running.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

It's a damn shame if Terminator has gotten rough. It always makes me nervous when parks add these really fast relentless wooden coasters, because if they're not committed to baby it and constantly spend money, they are going to become unbearable. And lets be serious SFMM is a huge park with probably little maintenance staff, it isn't a park that is going to spend much more than it needs to keep things running.

Apocalypse really was not rough. I understand they did some track work right before WCB, and it apparently helped.

[Trogdor: The Burninator!!]

With the exception of Revolution and maybe Gold Rusher, no other coaster in the park needs to be preserved for nostalgic or historical purposes. SFMM has always been sort of the Las Vegas of theme parks; constantly changing, out with the old in with the new.

 

I won't lie, I will tear up a little bit if it leaves, the way it dominates the skyline gives it a unique aesthetic, especially as it's a become a rare Arrow looper that is increasingly outnumbered by B&Ms and others but we shouldn't let nostalgia cloud our judgement. It lost its mojo only a few years after it opened. I first rode it in 1998 and even then it was jerking people necks around. It should've been removed the same time Deja Vu and Psyclone got the ax, if not sooner. But for so long it was cheap to maintain and operate but that's no longer the case.

 

I'd love to see a Intamin giga as much as the next guy but a dive coaster would still be an awesome choice as well IMO.

[SFMMGeek27]

Fright Fest starts tonight.. who's going?

 

I will likely be there!

[singemfrc]

With the exception of Revolution and maybe Gold Rusher, no other coaster in the park needs to be preserved for nostalgic or historical purposes.

X2 is also historically significant, being the first 4D coaster, one of only three in the world of it's kind, and the last coaster that Arrow ever developed.

[Cj1990]

As rough as X2 has become. It is still in my top. There is just something about it that I love.

Plus riding with people that have never ridden before and seeing/hearing their reaction is amazing lol.

[Cj1990]

As rough as X2 has become. It is still in my top. There is just something about it that I love.

Plus riding with people that have never ridden before and seeing/hearing their reaction is amazing lol.

[DoubleDown]

That only applies to the footers, not the ride structure itself. It's lasted because sections of track have been replaced numerous times (in addition to trains being rebuilt).

 

I'm probably wrong, but I don't recall track replacement ever happening on Viper, in at least the past 20 years. There have been trim brakes added and the trains are thoroughly rebuilt, and like any Arrow it is frequently checked and repaired for weld cracks and fatigue, but I have never remember an instance where track has been replaced. If you have any kind of evidence for this happening it would be greatly appreciated.

 

The ride was the last of the big Arrow loopers and designed better than it's predecessors. The park has tons of spare parts from other Arrows in the chain. With rides like Gold Rusher in the park, I just don't see it going bye-bye. There are plenty of other areas in the park to build a coaster. Yeah it's got its lumps but it is still a great ride, that first drop in the back seat is phenomenal.

 

BTW does anyone remember the old 90's Viper commercial with a cereal company? I think it was Golden Grahams or something?? Something about going upside down 7 times? That was a great commercial.

[Eaanderson10]

Fright Fest starts tonight.. who's going?

 

I will likely be there!

 

 

Nice! Yeah, I think I'm gonna head over later tonight and just cruise the park... throw on a hoodie, grab some food and a shake, ride a few coasters and just sit back, take a deep breath and say "ah, almost to holiday season!" This is the best time of year! Have fun!

[viking86]

That only applies to the footers, not the ride structure itself. It's lasted because sections of track have been replaced numerous times (in addition to trains being rebuilt).

 

I'm probably wrong, but I don't recall track replacement ever happening on Viper, in at least the past 20 years. There have been trim brakes added and the trains are thoroughly rebuilt, and like any Arrow it is frequently checked and repaired for weld cracks and fatigue, but I have never remember an instance where track has been replaced. If you have any kind of evidence for this happening it would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the first drop on Viper was reprofiled at one point. I seem to recall having seen an old POV where the banking at the bottom of the first drop is quite different. Unfortunately I'm not able to find that video. Can someone confirm that it's not just my imagination?

[southpuddle]

DoubleDown, that's one of the most memorable commercials from my childhood. Viper was always just the most intimidating coaster for me when I was a little kid. My first visit to SFMM was in 1994, and it was the biggest thing there. I'll be super sad when it does eventually leave. I still love it, but I'm sure much of that is for sentimental reasons.

 

[coasterlvr]

That only applies to the footers, not the ride structure itself. It's lasted because sections of track have been replaced numerous times (in addition to trains being rebuilt).

 

I'm probably wrong, but I don't recall track replacement ever happening on Viper, in at least the past 20 years. There have been trim brakes added and the trains are thoroughly rebuilt, and like any Arrow it is frequently checked and repaired for weld cracks and fatigue, but I have never remember an instance where track has been replaced. If you have any kind of evidence for this happening it would be greatly appreciated.

 

The ride was the last of the big Arrow loopers and designed better than it's predecessors. The park has tons of spare parts from other Arrows in the chain. With rides like Gold Rusher in the park, I just don't see it going bye-bye. There are plenty of other areas in the park to build a coaster. Yeah it's got its lumps but it is still a great ride, that first drop in the back seat is phenomenal.

 

BTW does anyone remember the old 90's Viper commercial with a cereal company? I think it was Golden Grahams or something?? Something about going upside down 7 times? That was a great commercial.

 

i rode viper a lot up until that last 5 years or so. i can't remember track being change, "numerous times", either, or at all really. i'm interested in this as well. i remember being told that the big columns after the first loop had those extra supports added shortly after. but i don't remember that either.

[coaster-mm]

Fright Fest starts tonight.. who's going?

 

I will likely be there!

We ( me and my wife) are gonna be there tomorrow!

[RandyV]

^Tennessee Tornado was designed to modern standards. Not with "coat hanger" engineering.

 

Also, if I remember right, sections of the first three loops have been replaced/reinforced with extra cross ties over the years. I believe the last one was when the ride was periodically closed for X construction.

Correct. All three of the Arrow triplets (Shockwave, GASM and Viper) were built without the cross ties on the tops of the loops. The tops were all replaced after a few years (1993 or 1994 as I recall) with the additional bracing due to structural fatigue. SFGAdv put one of the old pieces in the wildlife partk for the animals to play on. See the TPR thread here and scroll down about half way for the pics:

 

http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55756&start=580

[RandyV]

The ROI on Viper is in the red now I'm sure and it's the #1 ride that people complain about to guest relations. The amount of complaints about the ride are staggering it's kind of hilarious.

Can you share any of those complaints or the number of them? I am purely curious how many complaints the park gets about Viper in a given day, week, month etc.

 

And there is next to no true historical significance attached to Viper. Nothing that actually matters to the public or management.

I am sure there isn't. As I said, I understand it's a numbers game. Six Flags is a business, not a museum curator.

 

You seem to be in the know here. Do you know and can you comment if the investment in Revolution this season was made based on it's historical significance or on guest input? My opinion is that Revolution was not more popular than Viper. I'd appreciate your insights in to this.

[coasterlvr]

^Tennessee Tornado was designed to modern standards. Not with "coat hanger" engineering.

 

Also, if I remember right, sections of the first three loops have been replaced/reinforced with extra cross ties over the years. I believe the last one was when the ride was periodically closed for X construction.

Correct. All three of the Arrow triplets (Shockwave, GASM and Viper) were built without the cross ties on the tops of the loops. The tops were all replaced after a few years (1993 or 1994 as I recall) with the additional bracing due to structural fatigue. SFGAdv put one of the old pieces in the wildlife partk for the animals to play on. See the TPR thread here and scroll down about half way for the pics:

 

http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55756&start=580

 

 

here's some screen caps from a video "1990 Six Flags Magic Mountain Viper Commercial" on youtube.

 

[youtu_be]https://youtu.be/aCJdyjlQvPE[/youtu_be]

 

the cross ties that a friend said weren't do indeed look like they were not there in the very beginning of the commercial.

 

 

there's the differences. pretty interesting.

[ToNC]

It's like Elissa, and others have referenced... If Viper isn't getting good ridership numbers anymore, and I'd be shocked if it was, then replacing it with something that will become a sure-fire crowd pleaser makes a lot of sense. Maintenance costs for the older coaster will only continue to go up, and if there aren't that many people riding it any longer, its removal for something else makes a lot of sense. As for what constitutes a sure-fire crowd pleaser, the Dive Coaster sure fits the bill. While I know they have very mixed reviews in enthusiast circles, the fact of the matter is that they are VERY exciting and attention grabbing coasters to the GP, which is the demographic that Amusement Parks are looking at. The addition of Valravn at CP has taken what was already a popular destination, and given it an even greater surge in attendance, and I can assure you that from going to CP with a wide-cross section of GP individuals this year, it was highly talked about, and anticipated from the second it was visible in the park. Considering there isn't anything remotely like one on the West coast, SFMM would really make waves by installing the biggest and best Dive Coaster yet, and it would probably produce a massive spike in attendance.

 

As for location in the park, looking at potential locations that would not involve removing a coaster, none of them have the prominence that putting a Dive Coaster in Viper's spot does. Alongside, and towering over X2, as visitors enter the park, it would definitely form an impressive statement, and excite arriving guests even more than they already were - much like the Valravn effect at CP. If this rumor is true, it's a brilliant move by SFMM, and as much as we enthusiasts would appreciate a B&M Giga like Fury (but taller) back there, I suspect the GP will be much more excited by a Dive Coaster.

I can't see Six Flags putting a coaster over 20M into any of their parks. The reason they've benn RMCing and placing "cookie cutter" rides in is because they're cheap. We have to remember that SF was in bankruptcy a few years ago. That doesn't just go away this quickly.

[RandyV]

The cross ties were definitely not there when the ride opened:

[SFMMGeek27]

Aftermath 2 was really good!! Only a 15 min wait with a normal maze pass too. Really long and highly approve!

[coaster-mm]

Aftermath 2 was really good!! Only a 15 min wait with a normal maze pass too. Really long and highly approve!

How were the crowds in the rest of the park yesterday? Gonna visit MM today and I'm very curious about the crowds and waittimes today.

Thanks!

[IdahoKat]

I still remember when Viper was new. This attached picture (on ride pic of me and sister) is 20+ years old, yet at that time, we absolutely loved the ride. Waiting 2-3+ hours in line was just the norm when it was new.

 

Fast forward to last year - sister hadn't ridden on Viper since this picture was taken. I'm usually game for anything (even rides I don't like such as Corkscrew & a last ride on MeanStreak last month), but I warned her she might not enjoy Viper as much as we did when we were young. I was right - she was done and never desires another ride on it.

 

I'll be going to KBF & SFMM next month, so for memory sake, I'll take a couple last rides on Viper (assuming the wait is less than 2-3 trains, which I doubt will be an issue) knowing it likely will be the next one scrapped for something better. My nostalgic last ride(s) on it will probably help remind me how rough it has become, and I won't miss it!

[SFMMGeek27]

Aftermath 2 was really good!! Only a 15 min wait with a normal maze pass too. Really long and highly approve!

How were the crowds in the rest of the park yesterday? Gonna visit MM today and I'm very curious about the crowds and waittimes today.

Thanks!

 

Really busy. I parked right before 8 and I got parked in the second dirt lot. The one further back than the first dirt lot. It actually wasn't that bad because there was a Praise on the Mountain event during the day that had a lot of attendees that were leaving, and they weren't letting you take vacant parking spots in the rest of the lot and were making you park further back. The ride lines were a no-go until about 11pm as they were all 60-90 min until then. The maze lines... well Aftermath 2 was 15 minutes at longest the entire night because it's a really high capacity maze... they basically make you run through it at the beginning. After about 10, the maze was a walk on the rest of the night. All the others... not so much. All 3 mazes near FT had 90 minute waits, with Reds Revenge being 30 min with express, Vault 666 was 15 min with express, and Toyz of Terror (didn't do it because it looked waaay too long, like 45min+ with express). Not terrible notnnit great either. You'll be in much better shape tonight!!

[coaster-mm]

Just left the park to cool down and take a swim at the hotel. The park was way more crowded than I expected. Also the heat doesn't help at all ( we're from northern europe, not build for this kind of weather). All the rides had a 45-60 min lines around noon. Glad we did FT and TC directly when we entered the park as those were the 2 we didn't ride when we were here in May 2013 for obvious reasons[emoji4].

Thinking about returningto the park around 7/7.30 just to watch the fright fest activities come to life. We're not big on halloween things so we will see......

[coasterlvr]

Just left the park to cool down and take a swim at the hotel. The park was way more crowded than I expected. Also the heat doesn't help at all ( we're from northern europe, not build for this kind of weather). All the rides had a 45-60 min lines around noon. Glad we did FT and TC directly when we entered the park as those were the 2 we didn't ride when we were here in May 2013 for obvious reasons[emoji4].

Thinking about returningto the park around 7/7.30 just to watch the fright fest activities come to life. We're not big on halloween things so we will see......

 

 

the heat is what keeps me away so much from there. it was so nice just a few days ago, too.