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The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread


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The Starflyer at SFDK is only 150 feet tall because that park has a height limit. It must not be an OSHA issue because it's been in operation for 5 years, so I don't see any reason SFMM can't get a 300 foot version.

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The Starflyer at SFDK is only 150 feet tall because that park has a height limit. It must not be an OSHA issue because it's been in operation for 5 years, so I don't see any reason SFMM can't get a 300 foot version.

 

I think one would be great in the park. There's a pretty good sized piece of land where Deja Vu once stood that's just filled with junk (the queue line and ramp up to the station is still standing there), but that corner of the park is so buried that the visual spectacle would be lost. Sticking it up on top of the mountain would be great because of the elevation, but there's not that much room up left there, and Tatsu gets too close to the Sky Tower to even consider some kind of potential swap-out. If anywhere, that space in front of FT where Flashback used to be is probably the most viable. Then again, the park has the kind of acrophobia Starflyers achieve pretty well covered with Lex Luthor.

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Visited today. Weather was gorgeous, and lines were very short all around. Couple things...

 

New Rev is only worth riding with the VR. It looks even slower than I remember it being. Overall I thought the VR was pretty fun but I got super nauseous during the last 15 or so seconds of the ride and had to take the headset off the instant we hit the brakes. Also, the dispatch times are pretty bad. Summer time is going to be REALLY rough unless they can figure out a way to demonstrate proper headset fitting to people before they sit down. 2:00-2:30 to send a train of 20 people.

 

My horrendous luck with racing on TC continues. 3 rides today, and didn't race a single time on either side. Also got stuck on the brakes for about 5 minutes due to train technical issues in the station. Up to 11 rides and still have yet to race on green (only done it twice on blue). I saw something odd happen 3 times today (including on one of my rides). Blue was catching up to Green on the lift, and the trains were just about to allign. But then, the blue lift slowed to the same speed as the green lift about 1 second earlier than it should have and green took off first, remaining an entire train length ahead for the whole course. Something's wrong with the programming, cuz it wasn't an issue of blue not having time to catch up. It caught up 90% of the way, and then just stopped trying.

 

One of Scream's trains has been recolored to match the track. Black seats/harnesses, and blue/orange carriages. Tbh, I hate this color scheme, but looks like its here to stay for a while. Ride is definitely starting to shudder during the course, but a rough B&M is still pretty comfortable overall.

 

Batman running one train and still using the grouper outside the station. I've been noticing this on several rides a lot more in 2016 than I have in YEARS before. Keeps the station vibes pretty chill, but always makes the line seem long.

 

Tatsu and Ninja were down when I arrived but went up later in the day. First ride on Ninja after all the tree removal... definitely detracts from the experience.

 

Superman was running the right side today. Seemed like it was running about 95% power. Cars did break into the red zone, but only by a few feet.

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" I saw something odd happen 3 times today (including on one of my rides). Blue was catching up to Green on the lift, and the trains were just about to allign. But then, the blue lift slowed to the same speed as the green lift about 1 second earlier than it should have and green took off first, remaining an entire train length ahead for the whole course. Something's wrong with the programming, cuz it wasn't an issue of blue not having time to catch up. It caught up 90% of the way, and then just stopped trying."

 

Yeah that's what I saw yesterday several times the blue wasn't getting there as fast as I remember it going on preview time but it was able to almost catch it or catch it but the green went over first.

 

 

 

"Batman running one train and still using the grouper outside the station. I've been noticing this on several rides a lot more in 2016 than I have in YEARS before. Keeps the station vibes pretty chill, but always makes the line seem long."

 

It was running two trains when I was about to get on it yesterday but then the Mechanic came and removed one train because of it acting up in the rain. Grouper was there too.

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New Rev is only worth riding with the VR. It looks even slower than I remember it being.

 

I had a similar experience with Revolution. I'm not sure what the cause is but it felt seriously attenuated to me even though I don't think a significant speed reduction is technically possible (or it wouldn't complete the course). Maybe the weight of the trains made it feel more forceful in the past, or maybe the new trains allow them to run it much slower without too much traction, but it felt like it was struggling to crest some of the hills. I skipped the VR as it's not my thing, but I agree that operations are going to be a mess when the place is busy. I don't know what Shockwave's (SFOT) usual dispatch is like, but problems with the goggles pushed dispatches beyond 5 minutes every time I rode it. Fingers crossed SFMM will figure out a good system.

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The Funtime Starflyer has a similar ladder design that also doesn't meet Cal OSHA standards. This is why we won't be seeing a Funtime ride in California anytime soon.

 

I guess you missed the Funtime Starflyer that SFDK has been operating since 2011.

 

They must have applied for the waiver. Knott's could have done so too but they can take years to get approved and Cedar Fair didn't want to wait. I guess MM could do apply for the wavier as well, but they have become so focused on coasters that other thrills have overlooked.

 

There is no waiver. The applicable General Industry Safety Order from CalOSHA banning single rail ladders did not apply until March 2012. So all rides built prior are grandfathered in so long as they met the code at the time of their inspection.

 

However, once KBF voluntarily brought ride inspectors in (they didn't have to have them inspect since there were no injuries)...chances of KBF passing their annual inspection were probably very slim once they noticed the ladder, especially if the ladder played a role in the delay in getting riders down because technicians couldn't work quickly enough.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that there is a manufacturer out there that could incorporate a two rail ladder into their design to get the business of SFMM if SFMM wanted to purchase a starflyer style ride.

Edited by Jew
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I had kind of an oddball idea that sounded impractical at first, but actually keeps getting better the more I think of it. Regarding YOLO's terrible capacity.

 

While riding yesterday, I was like "ugh, my legs are feeling really smushed and I have to wait another minute for them to send the train in the station so I can get out." Then when I did get out, I thought "Geez, Premiere, could you make your trains any harder to get into/out of? No wonder your capacity sucks." Then the two thoughts came together and....

 

What if they retrofitted the holding block into an unload platform? The train has to park there for 30-45 seconds anyways. When you think about how much time it takes for people to just stand up and walk out, the unloading train would be empty by the time that the one in the station was ready to launch probably 90% of the time. The second launch already acts as a block brake in case the unloading train isn't clear, and the two platforms would have direct line of sight for communicating any reasons to hold operations (guests in wheelchairs who need extra time, stuck restraints, etc). It could even work as a means to pre-load guests in wheelchairs, so they never have the navigate the tight quarters of the current station. Not having the load vs unload cross traffic at the station could probably shave 20 or 30 seconds off the dispatch time and get the ride up to a respectable capacity. They could perhaps bypass it on slow or one train days when they don't have the demand or the staffing.

 

It would probably be prohibitively expensive to construct it as a retrofit, but it seems like something that should have been a no-brainer for the folks who do this stuff for a living.

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I had kind of an oddball idea that sounded impractical at first, but actually keeps getting better the more I think of it. Regarding YOLO's terrible capacity.

 

While riding yesterday, I was like "ugh, my legs are feeling really smushed and I have to wait another minute for them to send the train in the station so I can get out." Then when I did get out, I thought "Geez, Premiere, could you make your trains any harder to get into/out of? No wonder your capacity sucks." Then the two thoughts came together and....

 

What if they retrofitted the holding block into an unload platform? The train has to park there for 30-45 seconds anyways. When you think about how much time it takes for people to just stand up and walk out, the unloading train would be empty by the time that the one in the station was ready to launch probably 90% of the time. The second launch already acts as a block brake in case the unloading train isn't clear, and the two platforms would have direct line of sight for communicating any reasons to hold operations (guests in wheelchairs who need extra time, stuck restraints, etc). It could even work as a means to pre-load guests in wheelchairs, so they never have the navigate the tight quarters of the current station. Not having the load vs unload cross traffic at the station could probably shave 20 or 30 seconds off the dispatch time and get the ride up to a respectable capacity. They could perhaps bypass it on slow or one train days when they don't have the demand or the staffing.

 

It would probably be prohibitively expensive to construct it as a retrofit, but it seems like something that should have been a no-brainer for the folks who do this stuff for a living.

 

Very interesting idea. I could see this working if the stations are connected, that way loose articles can still be fetched (unless they say no loose articles on the ride at all, like MF or TTD).

 

Unfortunately, SFMM doesn't seem to care much about the capacity of their rides, so they would rather use that money toward another coaster I'd presume.

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Cool idea, but yeah SFMM doesn't care for capacity. X2 has an unused unloading platform that hasn't been used in forever, them not using both stations of Tatsu, Superman only running one side, rides only 1 train, etc. Having those extra employees and paying them is too much to ask. Only benefit I give them is like right now on slow days having all those extra employees when the park is empty doesn't make much business sense. And the park is open year round so at least we are lucky in that way.

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I agree with all the above, except for the X2 unloading platform. I personally think they stopped using it because in that particular case, it actually is faster to load and unload at the same location. If you recall, when it was being used, the seats would tilt down to unload, then have to be titled back up to move forward to the load area, and then tilt back down yet again. It took forever. This way, it only has to tilt one time, which does speed things up a bit.

 

But yeah... I've though that both FT and TC would both benefit from an unload station. But like others have mentioned, I can't imagine it actually happening.

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so park was dead today. weather was perfect. a tiny bit windy up on drop of doom, but nothing closed because of it as far as i know. parking was a full first section and most all of the part in front of the picnic area.

superman line was just about to the end of the tunnel. revolution was roughly to the beginning of the incline. took a good 45 minutes to get on. first headset was too hot. second was good. my friends just didn't work. rode without, but they told us we can ride again. so after the first ride, got right back in line. 3rd headset for me went dead waiting. then the replacement was okay, but i couldn't get it to focus very well at all. so that was annoying. while waiting in line while on the bridge, at least a few people every train were being sent back to re-ride. they were also barely getting headsets back and cleaned in time. if they have what 250 headsets, they need 600. charge, cool down, clean, etc.

 

anyway, i thought the VR was cool. the video doesn't always replicate the physical movement exactly the same. like the turns or dives feel like the angle is off during some scenes. no sound is a bit of a bummer. i was at simulator city universal a couple weeks ago, so maybe i'm just spoiled. although i didn't ride without, my friend did, and revolution is so slow, i can see it being way better with the VR. probably ride it another time with a buddy i go with a lot, but after that, if the line is as long as it was today, to me, it's not worth waiting for. the area looks great as many have said.

 

i have to say, today i noticed some great employees. like someone said earlier, the TC crew was hustlin'. got a near dual duel, but the lifts just seem like they need some adjustments. encouragement given to the GP while boarding, and countdown to duel or not. i think some has to do with it being off season, they have the more seasoned, serious, crew in place these days? i dunno, non of the employees looked familiar but were great.

 

superman, revolution, goliath...all had crews that weren't messing around.

 

anyway, had a great time today.

 

 

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oh yeah, these guys got the boot for something. there were like 3 other staff there also. toward the bottom of the hill by the carousel they were talking crap as they were being escorted out. i get a kick out of guys getting booted for doing something wrong.

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I had kind of an oddball idea that sounded impractical at first, but actually keeps getting better the more I think of it. Regarding YOLO's terrible capacity.

 

While riding yesterday, I was like "ugh, my legs are feeling really smushed and I have to wait another minute for them to send the train in the station so I can get out." Then when I did get out, I thought "Geez, Premiere, could you make your trains any harder to get into/out of? No wonder your capacity sucks." Then the two thoughts came together and....

 

What if they retrofitted the holding block into an unload platform? The train has to park there for 30-45 seconds anyways. When you think about how much time it takes for people to just stand up and walk out, the unloading train would be empty by the time that the one in the station was ready to launch probably 90% of the time. The second launch already acts as a block brake in case the unloading train isn't clear, and the two platforms would have direct line of sight for communicating any reasons to hold operations (guests in wheelchairs who need extra time, stuck restraints, etc). It could even work as a means to pre-load guests in wheelchairs, so they never have the navigate the tight quarters of the current station. Not having the load vs unload cross traffic at the station could probably shave 20 or 30 seconds off the dispatch time and get the ride up to a respectable capacity. They could perhaps bypass it on slow or one train days when they don't have the demand or the staffing.

 

It would probably be prohibitively expensive to construct it as a retrofit, but it seems like something that should have been a no-brainer for the folks who do this stuff for a living.

 

While a great idea, that block is also the turntable (or whatever it's called) for the storage track.

 

And for those of you that are lucky enough to have the time right now, the park is DEAD on weekdays. Especially Tuesday through Thursday. I'm talking like maybe 3,000 people in the park which is nothing. I might have to get out there myself and ride a few rides.

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Separate unload platforms work very well if and only if there is a surplus of trains on the track, and at least one more train than can fit on the circuit/ single station at a time. For this reason, an unload platform on TC would actually slow down dispatch times. This is because, in order for it to race, the following train cannot stack on the final block for very long. That time would only be lengthened if it had an unload platform there. Now, if they were to put in an unload platform, AND also decided to run four trains instead of three, that would be perfect.

 

Millennium Force is the perfect example of when an unload platform works. It was designed to run three trains, but there are no mid-course blocks, so the next train cannot be dispatched until the previous train is near the end of the course. You would expect a coaster like this to run two trains. But, it has a third train so one can unload while another is loading. This works well then they are running three trains. However, when they are only running two trains, the unload platform can slow down the loading, because it takes the coaster longer to unload and load than a single station would.

 

Basically, unload stations work great, but only if there are so many trains on the track that a train is guaranteed to stack for an extended period of time even if the ride is running at full capacity. So, an unload station would not help on TC unless they added an extra train. Now an unload station might help on Full Throttle. In theory, this seems like a very bad coaster to put an unload station on, as these are almost never helpful if the coaster runs only two trains. However, dispatches on Full Throttle are usually so slow that an unload platform might help. An unload platform would also help on Xcelerator, if it actually ran two trains. (But the last time I saw Xcelerator run two trains was October 2013, so that would not help at all).

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and revolution is so slow, i can see it being way better with the VR.

Bizarre, isn't it? I thought I was just misremembering it at first, but I know that ride pretty well as I always used to ride it when at the park, and I still can't figure out why it feels that slow and sluggish now. Train weight? Over-active trims? Even though I've no interest in VR myself, it does seem that the slower ride will allow for a less nauseating experience. And yes, the broken and malfunctioning headsets was also happening when I rode Shockwave. That's largely what was causing the 5+ minute dispatches: people couldn't get their headsets to stay on their heads or focus, and then it seemed like at least one would break for every train causing the ops to have to replace it before the ride started. I saw several people arrive back in the station complaining that their screen shut down midway through the ride as well.

 

TC ops at SF have been pretty great since the ride opened, I find. I also find that most of the staff at the park are consistently on-the-ball, but the TC crew are always especially great.

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Reading these reports of fast TC operation makes me think someone finally read my surveys that I always put in caps to improve TC operations.

 

as far as my report, let me also say that pretty much every train also had empty seats. another thing i noticed today was, not a lot of sports bottles. less GP holding stuff up. but the ride operators were definitely hustling back to their stations for the all clear regardless.

 

also noticed the higher than normal enthusiasm when returning to the station on all the coasters i rode today.

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