The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[laqueefa]

Strange. I kept riding the one without the newer restraints with no problems. Although, I do get punched, kicked, elbowed, and kneed 3+ times a week for fun, so maybe thats it

[CedarFlags]

Something that is prohibitively complicated, but would have made the racing aspect easier is...

 

get rid of the stupid trick track before the blue lift. It adds nothing to the overall experience, but it eats up valuable seconds that can be (and often ARE) the difference between racing or not, which has a huge impact on the experience. I suppose though, that it could just decrease the time of the blue side, thus getting the train to the green lift that many seconds quicker. If only they had put those 5 seconds worth of time at the END of the blue side instead of the beginning.

[ioio]

What they should've done was not tried doing something like this without properly thinking it through (e.g. locker_s should be used for this ride). The concern from the beginning was always SFMM being able to duel, and here we are, months later, and other than the commercial filming, I' still haven't dueled both sides on the same ride.

[Tmcdllr]

Please, Robb, would you be so kind as to give your thoughts regarding the two previous posts? I think it might be needed.

[laqueefa]

We had a bunch of perfect duels at WCB. The dispatchers know how much time they to dispatch the train before missing the window, and were giving verbal 15 second notifications over the mic. It's primarily up to the readiness of the public (80% GP, 15% dispatch team, 5% ride reliability IMO). I saw so many members of the GP sit in the train, buckle their belt, then get told they couldn't wear their hats/sunglasses/etc. and that's wasn't just not on TC.

[coasterfreak101]

^I feel like you hit the nail on the head, maybe without even trying - of course it was dueling during WCB, because if dispatches are 80% GP-reliant and the GP isn't on the ride during ERT then the problem doesn't exist.

 

Enthusiasts aren't oblivious to what they need to do to get on a coaster as quickly as possible, but the GP are. The ride shouldn't have been designed to duel with such a slim margin that it relies on the SFMM crowd (seriously, of all groups of people) to follow protocol to a tee, period.

 

Here is the flaw in the green lift programming:

 

So they cannot dispatch the next train from the station until the train in front hits the mid course brake where the track changes from blue to green.

This makes no sense to me. Every B&M hyper is designed to release a train immediately after the one before it has crested the lift hill, and there's no reason why this ride shouldn't operate the same way. The fact that the green lift needs to slow down at all because it's inherently designed to restrict throughput is beyond me.

[joshfreund]

All they had to do was leave the station intact and have dual loading...would have dueled 9 times outta ten...could be loading two trains at once..maybe even one waiting on the pre-game launch block..the lap is two short, or a 540° twisted helix before the green lift, would bought em 10-15 valuable seconds

[Manic Monte]

^ Is that true though? Because Scream right next door will not release a train until the train in front of it has crossed the mid course. Tatsu will not release a train until the train in front of it has crossed the break run after the final helix.

 

Talking to Tim at WCB, he said they are looking at a items free platform for 2016.

[DJeXeL]

On pretty much every coaster (with a lift), once the lift is clear you can dispatch the next train. I know for a fact that Tatsu and Scream will let you dispatch a train the second that the lift is clear. Any B&M built after 2003 has a "Creep mode" on the lift will help prevent a "block setup" by slowing the lift chain down to near-idle (but not quite) speed so the previously dispatched train has had time to clear the MCBR.

[Manic Monte]

^ I can see that, but I can also see that will never happen.

 

I still say the solution is to take a look at how SFGadv operates El Toro or even SFMM with X2. No loose articles and quick loading.

[DJeXeL]

I agree, It won't happen simply because of "the human factor." I was just stating that the ride's control system will let it happen. Loose articles and riders that don't fit in the restraint system are the biggest issue at the majority of coasters.

[fredoflasvegas]

Something that is prohibitively complicated, but would have made the racing aspect easier is...

 

get rid of the stupid trick track before the blue lift. It adds nothing to the overall experience, but it eats up valuable seconds that can be (and often ARE) the difference between racing or not, which has a huge impact on the experience. I suppose though, that it could just decrease the time of the blue side, thus getting the train to the green lift that many seconds quicker. If only they had put those 5 seconds worth of time at the END of the blue side instead of the beginning.

 

What SFMM should have done is operate the coaster with four trains. Immediately upon dispatching, the third train would stop and wait right out of the station (where that mini launch is) for the first two trains currently in circuit and ready to meet the second train going up the second lift hill. Meanwhile, the fourth train would be in the station loading. And it would have plenty of time to load (from the time the third train is sent off until that same train is half-way through the first circuit after the lift hill).

 

If you don't understand this at first, stop and think about it. This was the only way the dueling aspect of this ride could have worked given the challenges SFMM's faces with loading their coasters. I knew from the moment they announced this coaster operating with three trains that the dueling aspect would rarely work. And we are seeing why it is. There's just not enough time to get the last train in the station, load it and send it off to meet the first train in circuit.

 

To ensure that dueling happens, sensors would have to be set up in various parts of the coasters so that trains can be synched. SFMM should have paid for computer program to get the trains to synch on the lift hill. But no, apparently they opted to have everything done manually.

 

That's a world class theme park for you!

[coasterlvr]

i know for sure before i ever felt that green lift go super slow, which seems to have started after commercial filming, we were definitely release before the blue hit the brakes.

 

we knew we would get a good duel, because as you were going thru the mid course brake, the train from the station was already heading your way.

 

while most times at WCB ERT, were after, i do remember at least 4 of my rides being like the commercial shoot where the green side never did that crawl up the lift towards the top.

 

it seemed there were two windows to release the train. one wasn't hard to make with half decent riders and employees. the other, you need to be fairly efficient. i'd say one seat re-check will kill the chance of it and then they'll wait for the next one where green crawls up the lift.

[dylanreich]

What SFMM should have done is operate the coaster with four trains.... That's a world class theme park for you!

Are you serious? What major parks (outside of Disney) do you know that operate coasters with 4 trains?

This was the only way the dueling aspect of this ride could have worked given the challenges SFMM's faces with loading their coasters.

That's just not true at all. All that is required is a no loose article policy. As has been already mentioned, the ride duels consistently when loose articles aren't slowing down dispatches. Hopefully what Tim told Magic Monte ends up being the case for 2016 (that they'll possibly implement lockers).

To ensure that dueling happens, sensors would have to be set up in various parts of the coasters so that trains can be synched. SFMM should have paid for computer program to get the trains to synch on the lift hill. But no, apparently they opted to have everything done manually.

What? There are sensors, there is a computer program, and they don't sync them manually.

[Top Thrill Dragster]

^Manta at Sea World San Diego runs 4 trains on a regular bases during the summer.

[Superbatboy]

What SFMM should have done is operate the coaster with four trains.... That's a world class theme park for you!

Are you serious? What major parks (outside of Disney) do you know that operate coasters with 4 trains?

Don't TTD and Maverick run 4-5 trains?

[JonnyRCT3]

What SFMM should have done is operate the coaster with four trains.... That's a world class theme park for you!

Are you serious? What major parks (outside of Disney) do you know that operate coasters with 4 trains?

Don't TTD and Maverick run 4-5 trains?

 

Yeah, they both run 6.

[TB305]

What SFMM should have done is operate the coaster with four trains.... That's a world class theme park for you!

Are you serious? What major parks (outside of Disney) do you know that operate coasters with 4 trains?

Don't TTD and Maverick run 4-5 trains?

Verbolten runs 5 trains.

Edited September 15, 2015 by TB305

[dylanreich]

Let me rephrase my point, maybe it didn't come across as intended. I said operate 4 trains, as in run 4 trains, not own 4 trains. For TTD and Maverick, there are 6 trains in total. TTD has 6 trains, but does not operate 6 trains at one time, which is what freoflasvegas was suggesting SFMM do (run all 4 trains of their trains at once)...

Edited September 15, 2015 by dylanreich

[dylanreich]

EDIT: Double post.

[coasterfreak101]

What SFMM should have done is operate the coaster with four trains.... That's a world class theme park for you!

Are you serious? What major parks (outside of Disney) do you know that operate coasters with 4 trains?

In addition to the number of examples people just gave you, I can't think of a single dueling ride that doesn't have four trains running. The other three Möbius loop coasters still in operation ALL have four trains - in fact, from what I can find, Montaña Rusa might even have six!

 

Your point about not operating all of the available trains doesn't really stand, either. TTD doesn't operate all of its trains because, after a few seasons of running all six, it was determined that the ride was actually more efficient with five - still more than four, and on a 17-second ride to boot. I believe that Maverick also runs with at least five trains at most times, and often with six if I'm not mistaken.

[dylanreich]

^My main point is that with a no loose article policy, the ride can duel consistently.

 

Anyways, with Revolution already closed, I wonder when we can expect it to open back up? Anyone know if the park has given a more specific time frame than Summer 2016?

[scottiemon]

Wouldn't it make sense to open it on May 8, 2016, the exact 40 year anniversary of the ride opening? If I were them, that would be what I was shooting for.

[Superbatboy]

Kind of disappointing that Revolution's trims won't be removed. Does anyone know why they were put there in the first place? Were the trains putting too much stress on that track?

 

I remember riding Revolution as a kid in the 90's and early 00's without trims.

[joshfreund]

Wait, how do you know the trims aren't being removed?