The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[coasterlvr]

Has anyone ever experienced a roll back on YOLOcoaster? How was it?

 

I did on my second ride opening day? the day after they had that midnight thing. I think there wasn't any thrust after the reverse launch. it went up about half of the loop. rolled back into the tunnel. it moved a few times until in position. we were stuck maybe 10 minutes then it launched backwards and forward normally over the loop. best part, we got to re ride immediately.

[GayCoasterGuy]

So does anybody think SFMM would ever restore or remodel Revolution?

There is always a chance... I hope Magic Mountain someday takes the opportunity. If they marketed the whole "restoration" properly (in a NON-YOLO way) it could be a huge success for them.

 

I'd hate to see such a classic be torn down for the next YOLO-machine.

That would be dreadful. We have enough rip your face off short rides at the park.

 

-Restraints - Lap bars only, maybe seatbelts or newer, tighter bars if California insists.

Seatbelts maybe, but the bars work fine on Shock Wave, Mind Bender, sooperdooperLooper, Montezooma's and Scorpion.

 

If there are new trains, I'd like to see the unusual shape of the trains that they have now stay.

Heck yeah! Those train bodies are classic!

 

-Reprofiling would be like this-italicized parts have small modifications, bolded parts have large modifications

 

Start - Keep this. I love the huge second drop right into the woods.

-Second hill - I'd love to see a speed hill here. Lower it and give it some floater airtime right into the helix

-Pre-loop trims - Reduce or remove. Did the ride even have these when it opened? They actually stop the train now, or they come very close to it. Keep the brakes as a possible block brake, but make them not work as trims.-

-Loop drop and loop - Keep this drop as is along with the loop, it is a signature feature of the ride.

-Turn after the loop - Modify this to have more of a hill-top to lead into the next feature

-Drop after loop - I'd like to see this drop start quickly for some airtime. The lack of trimming before the loop would make this easier to accomplish. Carve this into the terrain a little for a surprise steep plunge.

-Tunnel - Remove the trims. dang it! The straight section after the trims is boring, but it is another signature feature as it threads the loop and it should be kept, considering you can't do much with it. Again, did the ride open with trims? And also again, keep the brakes, but don't have them work as trims.

-Hill before helix - As long as it doesn't crawl like it does now, and has a pop of airtime, I'd like this. The entry to the helix could be reprofiled a bit to make it more comfortable at high speed.

-Helix - Keep this

 

You crazy!? The shape of those dramatic hills diving all over the hillside are a work of art. You can have wild speed bumps on other rides. The progression of the bigger drops and curves are what make this ride so special (well, before the painful shoulder bars).

 

I did my Senior Engineering project on the ride back in 1995. My finding was that the shoulder bars were there mainly to keep riders upright while entering and exiting the loop; the immediate entrance and exit to the loop are a hair too tight. It's very subtle, but it's a different radius than what was later used on sooperdooperLooper (and then even different for the Anton loopers after that). Also, the approach is different on those rides; the acceleration happens earlier so riders are better prepared for the G spike in the loop.)

 

I figured you could re-profile the long ramp to a very slightly steeper angle, and have a much larger pull-out before the loop. Same thing after the loop... This is very expensive, of course. My other plan of action was to come up with new lap bars with a higher grab bar to encourage riders to sit upright. The universe saw my idea and the bars appeared later on Premier coasters! There were most likely similar bars on other coaster, but it was cool anyway. Ironically, I had a call from Peter Schnabel of Premier after my Senior project, but the interview never happened.

 

(I'm no longer in the Engineering field, btw. Good luck to my fellow coaster nerds looking to get into parks/coasters! Get to know EVERYONE! That summer of 1995, I was an intern at SFOT and had the pleasure of meeting the whole group of SF engineers. Unfortunately, the internship didn't include much engineering and I ended up doing game management most of the summer culminating in a little hands-on with the interactive "Chameleon" up-charge ride. It was the first year of the intern program and they didn't know what to do with us. Good thing is they let us work whatever we wanted so I got to spend a few days on the wood coasters. I was pushing for some cool stuff, but most of it never happened. Thanks to then SFOT Bob Bennet, I was able to meet those engineers. At the end of summer, I transferred to Magic Mountain. They were so unorganized when I got there, I ended up leaving and going back home to Chicago.)

 

-Brakes - Make them magnetic (not necessary, but might make the ride a little less maintenance-heavy) and make sure you can accomodate 3 trains (in fact, didn't the ride used to be able to run more trains, possibly because the modern-day trims could act as block brakes?

 

I figure mag brakes would be a given, sooperdooperLooper got em for it's restoration. The other Anton coasters in the chain could use em too!

 

Also, did the ride use separate platforms a la Millenium Force at one point?)

Yup! One train would pull right behind the other, same as Whizzer at Great America (Whizzer doesn't unload there anymore).

 

-Paint - Keep it white. The ride has always been that way.

Yes! I often think rides in trees look nice painted to match the trees, but the white really POPS and like the shape of the hills, is one of the ride's hallmarks.

 

 

Control System - Maybe modernize, but still allow operation of at least 3 trains.

3 at minimum. The ride originally had 6. I think it comfortably ran 5 back in the day.

 

-Trees - DO NOT give this ride the Ninja treatment. The bare hill is one thing that I DO NOT want restored.

Ha! Imagine how great this ride would be running like it did originally but with all the current trees!? So cool and dark under those trees on a nice summer night!

 

Revolution's unique "chain drive" system used to be one long chain, if I read some article correctly. As one train dispatched, the same chain would pull a train in like the "rolling block" systems used on modern B&Ms with drive tires. As far as I know, it was changed after an employee crossing the tracks was killed by a train pulling in as one left. Am I right?

I remember the accident, but not sure if the system has been changed? I always remembered the loud drive chain pushing a train onto the lift, then another train being pulled into the station after that. When the ride was new, two trains were lined up in the station; the single chain would push one train onto the lift while another was pulled from unload to load at the same time (I never saw that, but that's what someone told me).

[GigaG]

GayCoasterGuy, maybe you've uncovered the true reason for Revolution's neutering. That makes sense. Still, the ride did operate 20 or so years without OTSRs. And as I said, I do love Revolution's dives, but the hills just seem slow... I just don't like airtime-less hills.

[GayCoasterGuy]

GayCoasterGuy, maybe you've uncovered the true reason for Revolution's neutering.

Other people have mentioned it over the years, but the rumored and silly reasons usually get more weight.

 

Still, the ride did operate 20 or so years without OTSRs.

And maybe it will again! Let's hope!

 

And as I said, I do love Revolution's dives, but the hills just seem slow...

Well... those 2 big twisting camel back hills do slow down quite a bit at the top. It was designed that way; it's a build-up to the loop. If you watch the old video, you notice the ride stays consistently faster after the loop. Artistic pacing of rides is mostly a thing of the past. I love rides with it! We have so many wham-bham-thank-you-mam intense rides now where everything is rush. Variety rocks! There was a very detailed description of Revolution's layout somewhere online. The writer was very intune with the movement of the ride as a work of art. I'll try to find that...

 

Also note Revolution's importance as a family ride (back then and could be again), with a 42" height requirement. (Isn't it 48" now?)

 

I just don't like airtime-less hills.

Geez, I thought I was picky

 

Trade offs my friend, trade offs. Sometimes a view is more important; the enjoyment of coasting through the hills and going someplace. Revolution goes everywhere! With low brake settings, there is airtime later in the ride. Heck, even Whizzer has light airtime when it's running fast (on a cool night, after warming up all day!)

[GigaG]

Where is the airtime without trims? Right after the loop? And yes, Revolution does have a 48" restriction.

[JeromyL]

So does anybody think SFMM would ever restore or remodel Revolution?

There is always a chance... I hope Magic Mountain someday takes the opportunity. If they marketed the whole "restoration" properly (in a NON-YOLO way) it could be a huge success for them.

 

I'd hate to see such a classic be torn down for the next YOLO-machine.

That would be dreadful. We have enough rip your face off short rides at the park.

 

-Restraints - Lap bars only, maybe seatbelts or newer, tighter bars if California insists.

Seatbelts maybe, but the bars work fine on Shock Wave, Mind Bender, sooperdooperLooper, Montezooma's and Scorpion.

 

If there are new trains, I'd like to see the unusual shape of the trains that they have now stay.

Heck yeah! Those train bodies are classic!

 

-Reprofiling would be like this-italicized parts have small modifications, bolded parts have large modifications

 

Start - Keep this. I love the huge second drop right into the woods.

-Second hill - I'd love to see a speed hill here. Lower it and give it some floater airtime right into the helix

-Pre-loop trims - Reduce or remove. Did the ride even have these when it opened? They actually stop the train now, or they come very close to it. Keep the brakes as a possible block brake, but make them not work as trims.-

-Loop drop and loop - Keep this drop as is along with the loop, it is a signature feature of the ride.

-Turn after the loop - Modify this to have more of a hill-top to lead into the next feature

-Drop after loop - I'd like to see this drop start quickly for some airtime. The lack of trimming before the loop would make this easier to accomplish. Carve this into the terrain a little for a surprise steep plunge.

-Tunnel - Remove the trims. dang it! The straight section after the trims is boring, but it is another signature feature as it threads the loop and it should be kept, considering you can't do much with it. Again, did the ride open with trims? And also again, keep the brakes, but don't have them work as trims.

-Hill before helix - As long as it doesn't crawl like it does now, and has a pop of airtime, I'd like this. The entry to the helix could be reprofiled a bit to make it more comfortable at high speed.

-Helix - Keep this

 

You crazy!? The shape of those dramatic hills diving all over the hillside are a work of art. You can have wild speed bumps on other rides. The progression of the bigger drops and curves are what make this ride so special (well, before the painful shoulder bars).

 

I did my Senior Engineering project on the ride back in 1995. My finding was that the shoulder bars were there mainly to keep riders upright while entering and exiting the loop; the immediate entrance and exit to the loop are a hair too tight. It's very subtle, but it's a different radius than what was later used on sooperdooperLooper (and then even different for the Anton loopers after that). Also, the approach is different on those rides; the acceleration happens earlier so riders are better prepared for the G spike in the loop.)

 

I figured you could re-profile the long ramp to a very slightly steeper angle, and have a much larger pull-out before the loop. Same thing after the loop... This is very expensive, of course. My other plan of action was to come up with new lap bars with a higher grab bar to encourage riders to sit upright. The universe saw my idea and the bars appeared later on Premier coasters! There were most likely similar bars on other coaster, but it was cool anyway. Ironically, I had a call from Peter Schnabel of Premier after my Senior project, but the interview never happened.

 

(I'm no longer in the Engineering field, btw. Good luck to my fellow coaster nerds looking to get into parks/coasters! Get to know EVERYONE! That summer of 1995, I was an intern at SFOT and had the pleasure of meeting the whole group of SF engineers. Unfortunately, the internship didn't include much engineering and I ended up doing game management most of the summer culminating in a little hands-on with the interactive "Chameleon" up-charge ride. It was the first year of the intern program and they didn't know what to do with us. Good thing is they let us work whatever we wanted so I got to spend a few days on the wood coasters. I was pushing for some cool stuff, but most of it never happened. Thanks to then SFOT Bob Bennet, I was able to meet those engineers. At the end of summer, I transferred to Magic Mountain. They were so unorganized when I got there, I ended up leaving and going back home to Chicago.)

 

-Brakes - Make them magnetic (not necessary, but might make the ride a little less maintenance-heavy) and make sure you can accomodate 3 trains (in fact, didn't the ride used to be able to run more trains, possibly because the modern-day trims could act as block brakes?

 

I figure mag brakes would be a given, sooperdooperLooper got em for it's restoration. The other Anton coasters in the chain could use em too!

 

Also, did the ride use separate platforms a la Millenium Force at one point?)

Yup! One train would pull right behind the other, same as Whizzer at Great America (Whizzer doesn't unload there anymore).

 

-Paint - Keep it white. The ride has always been that way.

Yes! I often think rides in trees look nice painted to match the trees, but the white really POPS and like the shape of the hills, is one of the ride's hallmarks.

 

 

Control System - Maybe modernize, but still allow operation of at least 3 trains.

3 at minimum. The ride originally had 6. I think it comfortably ran 5 back in the day.

 

-Trees - DO NOT give this ride the Ninja treatment. The bare hill is one thing that I DO NOT want restored.

Ha! Imagine how great this ride would be running like it did originally but with all the current trees!? So cool and dark under those trees on a nice summer night!

 

Revolution's unique "chain drive" system used to be one long chain, if I read some article correctly. As one train dispatched, the same chain would pull a train in like the "rolling block" systems used on modern B&Ms with drive tires. As far as I know, it was changed after an employee crossing the tracks was killed by a train pulling in as one left. Am I right?

I remember the accident, but not sure if the system has been changed? I always remembered the loud drive chain pushing a train onto the lift, then another train being pulled into the station after that. When the ride was new, two trains were lined up in the station; the single chain would push one train onto the lift while another was pulled from unload to load at the same time (I never saw that, but that's what someone told me).

 

I remember seeing 4 trains for sure operate.

[singemfrc]

-Restraints - Lap bars only, maybe seatbelts or newer, tighter bars if California insists.

Seatbelts maybe, but the bars work fine on Shock Wave, Mind Bender, sooperdooperLooper, Montezooma's and Scorpion.

Yeah unfortunately it's Six Flags policy now that any inverting coaster without OTSRs must have a seat belt, thats why they were added to YOLO, and apparently they consider the MCBR tilt on Goliath close enough to an inversion. I'd GLADLY trade those awful OTSRs for any seat belts they want to put in.

[Tmcdllr]

Revolution had 5 trains but, I think only ran a max of 3 at a time.

 

Here you can see 3 trains on the circuit at the same time...

 

 

Cool info here:

 

The coaster guy/ Revolution

 

schwarzkopf-coaster.net

 

More cool stuff.....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fxxQbnjcD8

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ida3FgIcB6E

 

 

From the movie....

 

 

Here you'll notice the trains with the original 2 point wheel system...

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting fact: Revolution's trains originally had the 2 point wheel system but was later modified to the 3 point system.

 

There is excellent footage from the movie ROLLERCOASTER of which you'll notice there are NO TRIMS! And as the train runs the course you'll also notice it was not designed to fly over the hills, but crest them gracefully.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Tmcdllr

[scottiemon]

-Restraints - Lap bars only, maybe seatbelts or newer, tighter bars if California insists.

Seatbelts maybe, but the bars work fine on Shock Wave, Mind Bender, sooperdooperLooper, Montezooma's and Scorpion.

Yeah unfortunately it's Six Flags policy now that any inverting coaster without OTSRs must have a seat belt, thats why they were added to YOLO, and apparently they consider the MCBR tilt on Goliath close enough to an inversion. I'd GLADLY trade those awful OTSRs for any seat belts they want to put in.

 

^^^ YES, 1000 times, YES^^^

[GigaG]

Wow... Why don't they make coasters with simple restraints to get that kind of dispatches any more? What is that, 30-40 seconds between the loop and the MCBR (at least it used to be) right before the loop? More like 20?

[DJeXeL]

-Restraints - Lap bars only, maybe seatbelts or newer, tighter bars if California insists.

Seatbelts maybe, but the bars work fine on Shock Wave, Mind Bender, sooperdooperLooper, Montezooma's and Scorpion.

Yeah unfortunately it's Six Flags policy now that any inverting coaster without OTSRs must have a seat belt, thats why they were added to YOLO, and apparently they consider the MCBR tilt on Goliath close enough to an inversion. I'd GLADLY trade those awful OTSRs for any seat belts they want to put in.

 

DDD @ SFOG doesn't have seat belts to my knowledge.

[Tmcdllr]

Ok so....

 

Anti rollbacks...

 

Block brake...

 

 

Then something interesting I never noticed before.

 

Here is the current section of track right after the trim brake at the run to the loop. See where the track is dark, like something used to be there....

 

Well actually there was something there pre trim. Some large chain driven drive tires...

[Jew]

The blocks were always there---Revolution was capable of running 4 or 5 trains.

[Tmcdllr]

I know that. I was pointing out the drive tires before the loop, those are gone now.

[GigaG]

Why don't they make coasters anymore that run more than 3 trains? Besides some new Intamins, but they are either short rides with 2-train stations like Dragster or shortish trains like Maverick.

 

Also, weird that they have a MCBR with no straight track on that hill. Anton was ahead if his time even in little things - those are still uncommon.

[GayCoasterGuy]

Revolution definitely ran 5 trains, no problem (and had 6 on hand). Whizzer at Great America ran 5... and it's a shorter ride. Anton had respect for people's time and money when they went to ride his rides!

 

There is another very big Anton fan around here that could explain how Anton built his big coasters to run between 5 and 7 trains (although he disagrees with me on the profile shape of Revolution's loop and entry/exit; I studied the crap out of those curves!). Crazy, huh!? Growing up riding Whizzer, I remember the train stopping - you plopped down - and the train took off. There were no pesky operator-dependent air gates; no seat belts and no song and dance "take 5" routines. People were also a little tougher (or had more common sense?) Mom took her purse on coasters; you usually took whatever you had with you. I remember taking my green Eastpack back pack on all the coasters at Kings Island. Long before cell phones that easily slip out of hands.

[ANJLOVER14]

As great as it would be to see Revolution as it was in its prime, I just can't imagine SFMM investing the money to reprofile the track/remove the trims. It would be using funds without drawing in crowds (How would they advertise it?). I could see them redoing the restraints on the trains (with enough customer complaints, maybe? ), but I'd place a hefty bet that the park feels it's just not worth the investment. In addition,the idea has been tossed around on here so much it's basically a cliche

[GigaG]

If you had a speed hill and no trims, there would be a variation in pacing. Combine that with a redo of the area around the ride (potentially the entrance plaza.) I imagine the GP know about Revolution's roughness (I don't mind it, but then again I typically can brace myself and tolerate headbanging), so how about this-

 

Scenario - Magic Mountain would be reprofiling Revolution and taking its trims off for its 40th anniversary. Modifications include the speed hill, reprofiling the slower parts of the ride, restoring the operations involving 3 or more trains. Here's how it could be marketed-

 

"New for 2016 - Revolution is like you've never seen it before!

After 40 years, Revolution will undergo a complete renovation. The original steel vertical looping coaster is now better than ever, with brand new ride vehicles designed for comfort. In addition, the track has been modified to create a fast-paced ride from the first drop to the final brake, while still keeping the spirit and design of this historic attraction. Revolution has been thrilling riders at the park for decades, and with these modifications, the ride will be brought into the modern era and continue to thrill riders for years to come."

[Propeller Factory]

I would like to see that.

[CPSFMMCW]

^^ that sounds like the park released it. I realize you just made that up, but good job!

[GayCoasterGuy]

If you had a speed hill

We have so many coasters that "do a bunch of things quickly" (including speed hills). Revolution is an old design from a different time. Different things are cool.

 

Scenario - Magic Mountain would be reprofiling Revolution and taking its trims off for its 40th anniversary. Modifications include the speed hill, reprofiling the slower parts of the ride, restoring the operations involving 3 or more trains. Here's how it could be marketed-

 

I may (or may not) be in the minority on this, but you will never ever convince me that changing Revolutions track profile (other than a minor tweak to the loop entrance/exit) is a good idea. What is there is pure genius; it's a work of art. I could nearly say the same thing for Mind Bender and Whizzer... just my 2 cents though. Maybe they can redo some of the old Arrows (envision a Phantoms Revenge-ish remake of Viper! Now that sounds good!)

[GigaG]

^^ that sounds like the park released it. I realize you just made that up, but good job!

Thanks, it took me a bit to make that. That would be hard to market, but not impossible.

 

Scenario - Magic Mountain would be reprofiling Revolution and taking its trims off for its 40th anniversary. Modifications include the speed hill, reprofiling the slower parts of the ride, restoring the operations involving 3 or more trains. Here's how it could be marketed-

 

I may (or may not) be in the minority on this, but you will never ever convince me that changing Revolutions track profile (other than a minor tweak to the loop entrance/exit) is a good idea. What is there is pure genius; it's a work of art. I could nearly say the same thing for Mind Bender and Whizzer... just my 2 cents though. Maybe they can redo some of the old Arrows (envision a Phantoms Revenge-ish remake of Viper! Now that sounds good!)

 

I know you love Schwarzkopf's rides. I do, too. I'm just picky about slow hills. As for Viper's Revenge, that would take quite a bit of creativity. Viper is in a fairly small area that isn't really the best place to make a hyper coaster. I'd love to see myself be proved wrong and have an airtime machine there, but it would have to be a pretty unusual layout. Although, Viper is the final Arrow 7-inversion coaster, so there is an arguement for keeping it.

[GayCoasterGuy]

^I'm sure there could be an argument for keeping Viper, but the bigger reason would be to create a kick-but and top-rated ride like Phantom's Revenge. That is very far outside the Six Flags box though. One can hope!

[Tmcdllr]

If you had a speed hill

We have so many coasters that "do a bunch of things quickly" (including speed hills). Revolution is an old design from a different time. Different things are cool.

 

Scenario - Magic Mountain would be reprofiling Revolution and taking its trims off for its 40th anniversary. Modifications include the speed hill, reprofiling the slower parts of the ride, restoring the operations involving 3 or more trains. Here's how it could be marketed-

 

I may (or may not) be in the minority on this, but you will never ever convince me that changing Revolutions track profile (other than a minor tweak to the loop entrance/exit) is a good idea. What is there is pure genius; it's a work of art. I could nearly say the same thing for Mind Bender and Whizzer... just my 2 cents though. Maybe they can redo some of the old Arrows (envision a Phantoms Revenge-ish remake of Viper! Now that sounds good!)

 

Cannot agree more!

 

And, you cannot reprofile Revolution while keeping it's original design because that is changing the original design.

 

Appreciate it for the masterful way it was designed, swooping dives and turns, graceful hills, and an awesome loop.

 

Just give it new trains, remove the trims, and this time PAINT THE ENTIRE RIDE and not just part of it!

[XYZ]

If you had a speed hill and no trims, there would be a variation in pacing. Combine that with a redo of the area around the ride (potentially the entrance plaza.) I imagine the GP know about Revolution's roughness (I don't mind it, but then again I typically can brace myself and tolerate headbanging), so how about this-

 

Scenario - Magic Mountain would be reprofiling Revolution and taking its trims off for its 40th anniversary. Modifications include the speed hill, reprofiling the slower parts of the ride, restoring the operations involving 3 or more trains. Here's how it could be marketed-

 

"New for 2016 - Revolution is like you've never seen it before!

After 40 years, Revolution will undergo a complete renovation. The original steel vertical looping coaster is now better than ever, with brand new ride vehicles designed for comfort. In addition, the track has been modified to create a fast-paced ride from the first drop to the final brake, while still keeping the spirit and design of this historic attraction. Revolution has been thrilling riders at the park for decades, and with these modifications, the ride will be brought into the modern era and continue to thrill riders for years to come."

 

Honestly, I don't see SFMM doing something like this. I would like to see a rehabilitation of Revolution, though SFMM seems to rather announce the removal of a classic ride, like Log Jammer and Colossus, than to choose to remodel them.