The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[singemfrc]

That mechanism has always been there. It ensures the cars are positioned correctly but sometimes it just can't flip the cars so a staff member is needed, unless they recently improved this device it's still gonna happen.

I know there's always been a locking mechanism to keep the cars positioned correctly as they load and unload, but I don't know if there's always been one that rights the car as it enters the station. I'm not sure if they improved it or what, but I've sat and watched people come in for quite a while and not seen any stuck upside down. Even on my craziest most unbalanced rides I've never come in upside down. (I first rode GL in 2013, when I visited in 2012 there was no FP for it and the line was 120 mins so I skipped it.)

[RandallDuell]

Did anyone here make it out to the Speedy Gonzalez / Bugs Bunny World grand opening? Looks like they did a really nice job refreshing the area, and the coaster looks pretty nice.........

 

It's also insane to see the Carrot Club theater actually all shiney and ready to go!

 

Hopeful someone from this site/board made it out to cover this.

[Tmcdllr]

That mechanism has always been there. It ensures the cars are positioned correctly but sometimes it just can't flip the cars so a staff member is needed, unless they recently improved this device it's still gonna happen.

I know there's always been a locking mechanism to keep the cars positioned correctly as they load and unload, but I don't know if there's always been one that rights the car as it enters the station. I'm not sure if they improved it or what, but I've sat and watched people come in for quite a while and not seen any stuck upside down. Even on my craziest most unbalanced rides I've never come in upside down. (I first rode GL in 2013, when I visited in 2012 there was no FP for it and the line was 120 mins so I skipped it.)

 

That's what I'm talking about. As the car comes off the final brakes, before it enters the station there is a device (you can see from one side of the station) that tries to spin the car until it is right side up. After that point it is locked in that position as it goes through the station. But sometimes, depending on what position the car comes in at, the device cannot right the car.

[Xceleratorfan96]

I went a few weeks ago on my grad nite to SFMM and it was definitely awesome going on all of the rides at night, I loved all the lights and simply riding the rides in the cool night vs the usual hot day this time of year.

 

So since I haven't been on TPR in a while... anyone know what's going on with Colossus? Are they completely tearing it down? Trying to add topper track or redo sections of it? I asked park employees what they knew but of course they gave responses that I could tell I couldn't trust.

 

I'm not sure what I would want done with the ride. Basically rebuilding it to have a Texas Giant style design would be sweet, but using that huge space for another coaster would be sweet as well. But you can't just tear out Colossus!.... even though I'm sure SFMM would do it

[singemfrc]

^ The only thing that is confirmed is the ride's closure. What they are going to do with it we don't know for sure, they haven't said anything officially. The most pervasive rumor is that RMC will probably convert it in some way.

 

They could do a major Rattler/Texas Giant style conversion or they might rip it totally out and build something new but I don't think it will just be topper track.

[JeromyL]

That mechanism has always been there. It ensures the cars are positioned correctly but sometimes it just can't flip the cars so a staff member is needed, unless they recently improved this device it's still gonna happen.

I know there's always been a locking mechanism to keep the cars positioned correctly as they load and unload, but I don't know if there's always been one that rights the car as it enters the station. I'm not sure if they improved it or what, but I've sat and watched people come in for quite a while and not seen any stuck upside down. Even on my craziest most unbalanced rides I've never come in upside down. (I first rode GL in 2013, when I visited in 2012 there was no FP for it and the line was 120 mins so I skipped it.)

 

During WCB last year, I came in upside down and was stuck painfully for about 2 or 3 minutes before some one spun the car manually. Next ride though, the device worked properly and auto spun us after we stopped.

[GigaG]

Magic Mountain has no need to neuter GL. Again, Americans are not made of butter. Just run it like Insane. I imagine that there won't be an intensity lawsuit. Does anybody disagree?

[singemfrc]

Magic Mountain has no need to neuter GL. Again, Americans are not made of butter. Just run it like Insane. I imagine that there won't be an intensity lawsuit. Does anybody disagree?

I don't think the intensity was lowered because of a potential lawsuit, I think that was an SF/SFMM business decision. They felt that if the ride was more intense it would attract less riders.

 

From my experiences I'd say they're correct. Although you and I would prefer it to be more intense, as coaster enthusiasts usually are we're in the minority. Every GP guest I've gone with on that ride already thinks it's way too intense as it is.

 

Apparently the Swedes are just more generally appreciative of a more intense ride than most Americans appear to be.

[GigaG]

Magic Mountain has no need to neuter GL. Again, Americans are not made of butter. Just run it like Insane. I imagine that there won't be an intensity lawsuit. Does anybody disagree?

I don't think the intensity was lowered because of a potential lawsuit, I think that was an SF/SFMM business decision. They felt that if the ride was more intense it would attract less riders.

 

From my experiences I'd say they're correct. Although you and I would prefer it to be more intense, as coaster enthusiasts usually are we're in the minority. Every GP guest I've gone with on that ride already thinks it's way too intense as it is.

 

Apparently the Swedes are just more generally appreciative of a more intense ride than most Americans appear to be.

 

Don't they realize that a more painful ride will turn off riders?

[singemfrc]

Magic Mountain has no need to neuter GL. Again, Americans are not made of butter. Just run it like Insane. I imagine that there won't be an intensity lawsuit. Does anybody disagree?

I don't think the intensity was lowered because of a potential lawsuit, I think that was an SF/SFMM business decision. They felt that if the ride was more intense it would attract less riders.

 

From my experiences I'd say they're correct. Although you and I would prefer it to be more intense, as coaster enthusiasts usually are we're in the minority. Every GP guest I've gone with on that ride already thinks it's way too intense as it is.

 

Apparently the Swedes are just more generally appreciative of a more intense ride than most Americans appear to be.

 

Don't they realize that a more painful ride will turn off riders?

Apparently not. See X2 and Revolution.

[GigaG]

Magic Mountain has no need to neuter GL. Again, Americans are not made of butter. Just run it like Insane. I imagine that there won't be an intensity lawsuit. Does anybody disagree?

I don't think the intensity was lowered because of a potential lawsuit, I think that was an SF/SFMM business decision. They felt that if the ride was more intense it would attract less riders.

 

From my experiences I'd say they're correct. Although you and I would prefer it to be more intense, as coaster enthusiasts usually are we're in the minority. Every GP guest I've gone with on that ride already thinks it's way too intense as it is.

 

Apparently the Swedes are just more generally appreciative of a more intense ride than most Americans appear to be.

 

Don't they realize that a more painful ride will turn off riders?

Apparently not. See X2 and Revolution.

 

Revolution isn't particularly popular, is it? As for X2, I don't really know.

[Jew]

I believe with the free spinning the ride exceeded the ASTM standard for G-forces.

[singemfrc]

I believe with the free spinning the ride exceeded the ASTM standard for G-forces.

I'd wager it still does on unbalanced rides. I rode once by myself on one side with two fat guys on the other side and it about tore my face off.

 

Don't they realize that a more painful ride will turn off riders?

Apparently not. See X2 and Revolution.

 

Revolution isn't particularly popular, is it? As for X2, I don't really know.

X2 is still arguably (vs. YOLO) the most popular ride in the park despite being the most painful in my opinion.

 

Revolution is still moderately popular judging by the wait times I see, but I think a lot more people would love it if they took those damned restraints off. That was more my point- that SFMM apparently doesn't realize (or care?) that a painful ride is turning off a lot of riders since they could eliminate the pain by removing the OTSRs but won't do so, probably because of the cost of doing so since it's been well discussed that there's no known laws requiring them.

 

If cost is an issue (and thats totally a guess on my part) Id totally be willing to contribute..a kickstarter or something would be awesome. Not that I expect that to ever happen.

[GigaG]

I believe with the free spinning the ride exceeded the ASTM standard for G-forces.

 

Wow. Does America really need to bubble wrap their rides so much that a ride that has been engineered and proven safe by a massive, experienced ride manufacturer in a developed part of the world needs to be neutered? Somebody needs to contact SFMM and ask if this is true, and if it IS true, somebody really needs to get angry at ASTM.

[Coaster Cow]

I believe with the free spinning the ride exceeded the ASTM standard for G-forces.

 

Wow. Does America really need to bubble wrap their rides so much that a ride that has been engineered and proven safe by a massive, experienced ride manufacturer in a developed part of the world needs to be neutered? Somebody needs to contact SFMM and ask if this is true, and if it IS true, somebody really needs to get angry at ASTM.

 

This makes me angry. How would you select which nations are "developed" enough to produce reputable rides? How would you decide which manufacturers are "experienced" enough to be free of regulation? Do you need to be reminded that Intamin is responsible for the majority of the most highly publicized ride accidents in the United States over the past few decades?

 

That doesn't even begin to touch on the rampant economic and political consequences of deregulating an international trade. Use your brain and think critically, it makes all the difference in the world in making people not sound like idiots.

[GigaG]

I believe with the free spinning the ride exceeded the ASTM standard for G-forces.

 

Wow. Does America really need to bubble wrap their rides so much that a ride that has been engineered and proven safe by a massive, experienced ride manufacturer in a developed part of the world needs to be neutered? Somebody needs to contact SFMM and ask if this is true, and if it IS true, somebody really needs to get angry at ASTM.

 

This makes me angry. How would you select which nations are "developed" enough to produce reputable rides? How would you decide which manufacturers are "experienced" enough to be free of regulation? Do you need to be reminded that Intamin is responsible for the majority of the most highly publicized ride accidents in the United States over the past few decades?

 

That doesn't even begin to touch on the rampant economic and political consequences of deregulating an international trade. Use your brain and think critically, it makes all the difference in the world in making people not sound like idiots.

 

I'm just saying that I don't get why the US can't have a safe ride that runs in Europe perfectly fine. As for the accidents, I imagine that riding that Zacspin or Mega-Lite or whatever is still much safer than however you got to the park.

[Tmcdllr]

I believe with the free spinning the ride exceeded the ASTM standard for G-forces.

 

Wow. Does America really need to bubble wrap their rides so much that a ride that has been engineered and proven safe by a massive, experienced ride manufacturer in a developed part of the world needs to be neutered? Somebody needs to contact SFMM and ask if this is true, and if it IS true, somebody really needs to get angry at ASTM.

 

This makes me angry. How would you select which nations are "developed" enough to produce reputable rides? How would you decide which manufacturers are "experienced" enough to be free of regulation? Do you need to be reminded that Intamin is responsible for the majority of the most highly publicized ride accidents in the United States over the past few decades?

 

That doesn't even begin to touch on the rampant economic and political consequences of deregulating an international trade. Use your brain and think critically, it makes all the difference in the world in making people not sound like idiots.

 

I'm just saying that I don't get why the US can't have a safe ride that runs in Europe perfectly fine. As for the accidents, I imagine that riding that Zacspin or Mega-Lite or whatever is still much safer than however you got to the park.

 

Because, again, we are wusses.

[Superbatboy]

I believe with the free spinning the ride exceeded the ASTM standard for G-forces.

 

Wow. Does America really need to bubble wrap their rides so much that a ride that has been engineered and proven safe by a massive, experienced ride manufacturer in a developed part of the world needs to be neutered? Somebody needs to contact SFMM and ask if this is true, and if it IS true, somebody really needs to get angry at ASTM.

 

This makes me angry. How would you select which nations are "developed" enough to produce reputable rides? How would you decide which manufacturers are "experienced" enough to be free of regulation? Do you need to be reminded that Intamin is responsible for the majority of the most highly publicized ride accidents in the United States over the past few decades?

 

That doesn't even begin to touch on the rampant economic and political consequences of deregulating an international trade. Use your brain and think critically, it makes all the difference in the world in making people not sound like idiots.

No need to get angry, it's a discussion forum people have opinions that will differ from yours.

 

I think Intamin's safety record is irrelevant in this case considering none of the accidents with their products were due to a ride being too intense for the GP.

[GigaG]

I believe with the free spinning the ride exceeded the ASTM standard for G-forces.

 

Wow. Does America really need to bubble wrap their rides so much that a ride that has been engineered and proven safe by a massive, experienced ride manufacturer in a developed part of the world needs to be neutered? Somebody needs to contact SFMM and ask if this is true, and if it IS true, somebody really needs to get angry at ASTM.

 

This makes me angry. How would you select which nations are "developed" enough to produce reputable rides? How would you decide which manufacturers are "experienced" enough to be free of regulation? Do you need to be reminded that Intamin is responsible for the majority of the most highly publicized ride accidents in the United States over the past few decades?

 

That doesn't even begin to touch on the rampant economic and political consequences of deregulating an international trade. Use your brain and think critically, it makes all the difference in the world in making people not sound like idiots.

 

I'm just saying that I don't get why the US can't have a safe ride that runs in Europe perfectly fine. As for the accidents, I imagine that riding that Zacspin or Mega-Lite or whatever is still much safer than however you got to the park.

 

Because, again, we are wusses.

ASTM shouldn't base things off "wussiness", but the very fact that Intamin's rides - or any rides that are made by a reputable manufacturer- are perfectly safe. Parks should be able to say "This ride looks good for us, is made by a reputable company, and has been running safely in Europe, so we will build it." without running into a wall saying "You have to make this ride safe for test dummies made of butter."

[Tmcdllr]

I believe with the free spinning the ride exceeded the ASTM standard for G-forces.

 

Wow. Does America really need to bubble wrap their rides so much that a ride that has been engineered and proven safe by a massive, experienced ride manufacturer in a developed part of the world needs to be neutered? Somebody needs to contact SFMM and ask if this is true, and if it IS true, somebody really needs to get angry at ASTM.

 

This makes me angry. How would you select which nations are "developed" enough to produce reputable rides? How would you decide which manufacturers are "experienced" enough to be free of regulation? Do you need to be reminded that Intamin is responsible for the majority of the most highly publicized ride accidents in the United States over the past few decades?

 

That doesn't even begin to touch on the rampant economic and political consequences of deregulating an international trade. Use your brain and think critically, it makes all the difference in the world in making people not sound like idiots.

 

I'm just saying that I don't get why the US can't have a safe ride that runs in Europe perfectly fine. As for the accidents, I imagine that riding that Zacspin or Mega-Lite or whatever is still much safer than however you got to the park.

 

Because, again, we are wusses.

ASTM shouldn't base things off "wussiness", but the very fact that Intamin's rides - or any rides that are made by a reputable manufacturer- are perfectly safe. Parks should be able to say "This ride looks good for us, is made by a reputable company, and has been running safely in Europe, so we will build it." without running into a wall saying "You have to make this ride safe for test dummies made of butter."

 

That's right and I agree and wish it was that way but it never will be and that is just sad. Intamin should be able to put a Zac Spin in Europe and run it like it was designed too, intensely with lots of flipping and they should also be able to put the same ride here and run it the same way.... but American wussies won't ever let that happen.

[Coaster Cow]

I believe with the free spinning the ride exceeded the ASTM standard for G-forces.

 

Wow. Does America really need to bubble wrap their rides so much that a ride that has been engineered and proven safe by a massive, experienced ride manufacturer in a developed part of the world needs to be neutered? Somebody needs to contact SFMM and ask if this is true, and if it IS true, somebody really needs to get angry at ASTM.

 

This makes me angry. How would you select which nations are "developed" enough to produce reputable rides? How would you decide which manufacturers are "experienced" enough to be free of regulation? Do you need to be reminded that Intamin is responsible for the majority of the most highly publicized ride accidents in the United States over the past few decades?

 

That doesn't even begin to touch on the rampant economic and political consequences of deregulating an international trade. Use your brain and think critically, it makes all the difference in the world in making people not sound like idiots.

No need to get angry, it's a discussion forum people have opinions that will differ from yours.

 

I think Intamin's safety record is irrelevant in this case considering none of the accidents with their products were due to a ride being too intense for the GP.

 

My anger isn't because of his opinion; I agree to an extent that America over-neuters their rides and that this is largely a completely unnecessary precaution. I'm angry that the argument seems to ignore structural issues in the way America as a nation functions that makes arguments like these pointless. Neither Six Flags nor the ATSM is responsible for these large-scale structural trends that drive the decisions they make; they have made their decisions as rational actors would given the environment in which they are acting. My bringing up Intamin's safety record was not to imply that their rides are statistically unsafe nor that GL is statistically unsafe- it was to show that Six Flags has a history of bad press and lawsuits as a result of ride accidents. To respond to GigaG's point that cars are much less safe, while that is true, the average car crash will not affect a large international corporation's bottom-line. Car crashes don't get the press. Even when GM finally announces what seems to be essentially a recall of their entire product line, it produces much less sensational coverage than the coaster whose brakes fail. However it may have arisen, Americans have an inherent understanding of amusement rides that links their appeal with danger. The end result of the various structural issues relevant to this situation is that Six Flags has every incentive in the world to limit risk, especially given that the number of people who would complain about GL's ride experience compared to Insane's is probably just as statistically insignificant as an accident actually happening on the ride.

 

A final anecdote, as I'm clearly rambling at this point. Look at the Mission Space debacle and how the sheer number of people passing through the ride's doors caused a massive acceleration in the rate of intensity-related accidents. While it seems clear that these people had pre-existing conditions that were accentuated by the ride, the result was a PR disaster and a perfect example of how a safe ride can be widely regarded as unsafe, to the point where it is probably all that most of the GP know about it coming into Epcot. Obviously I don't have the numbers to back it up, but I'm guessing that Disney lost money on their investment for that ride in the long-run.

 

Ending my rant, my anger isn't about the difference in opinion. It's in the endless ranting that takes up pages on these forums that ignores the larger issues that make them pointless and unproductive. We can't change anything about how GL is run, how Six Flags operates their rides, or how the government regulates new attractions by debating points that, when one takes a pragmatic view at the societal structures in place, cannot possibly be acted on.

[GigaG]

^So what you are saying is that none of this will change until America un-wussifies itself? This angers me. A lot. I really wish enthusiasts had some influence on parks outside of special events. That will never happen. Maybe we could spread the word to the GP that coasters are not deathtraps and they're supposed to throw you up into your lapbar, push you into your seat, etc... but how?

Edited June 28, 2014 by GigaG

[Tmcdllr]

I believe with the free spinning the ride exceeded the ASTM standard for G-forces.

 

Wow. Does America really need to bubble wrap their rides so much that a ride that has been engineered and proven safe by a massive, experienced ride manufacturer in a developed part of the world needs to be neutered? Somebody needs to contact SFMM and ask if this is true, and if it IS true, somebody really needs to get angry at ASTM.

 

This makes me angry. How would you select which nations are "developed" enough to produce reputable rides? How would you decide which manufacturers are "experienced" enough to be free of regulation? Do you need to be reminded that Intamin is responsible for the majority of the most highly publicized ride accidents in the United States over the past few decades?

 

That doesn't even begin to touch on the rampant economic and political consequences of deregulating an international trade. Use your brain and think critically, it makes all the difference in the world in making people not sound like idiots.

No need to get angry, it's a discussion forum people have opinions that will differ from yours.

 

I think Intamin's safety record is irrelevant in this case considering none of the accidents with their products were due to a ride being too intense for the GP.

 

My anger isn't because of his opinion; I agree to an extent that America over-neuters their rides and that this is largely a completely unnecessary precaution. I'm angry that the argument seems to ignore structural issues in the way America as a nation functions that makes arguments like these pointless. Neither Six Flags nor the ATSM is responsible for these large-scale structural trends that drive the decisions they make; they have made their decisions as rational actors would given the environment in which they are acting. My bringing up Intamin's safety record was not to imply that their rides are statistically unsafe nor that GL is statistically unsafe- it was to show that Six Flags has a history of bad press and lawsuits as a result of ride accidents. To respond to GigaG's point that cars are much less safe, while that is true, the average car crash will not affect a large international corporation's bottom-line. Car crashes don't get the press. Even when GM finally announces what seems to be essentially a recall of their entire product line, it produces much less sensational coverage than the coaster whose brakes fail. However it may have arisen, Americans have an inherent understanding of amusement rides that links their appeal with danger. The end result of the various structural issues relevant to this situation is that Six Flags has every incentive in the world to limit risk, especially given that the number of people who would complain about GL's ride experience compared to Insane's is probably just as statistically insignificant as an accident actually happening on the ride.

 

A final anecdote, as I'm clearly rambling at this point. Look at the Mission Space debacle and how the sheer number of people passing through the ride's doors caused a massive acceleration in the rate of intensity-related accidents. While it seems clear that these people had pre-existing conditions that were accentuated by the ride, the result was a PR disaster and a perfect example of how a safe ride can be widely regarded as unsafe, to the point where it is probably all that most of the GP know about it coming into Epcot. Obviously I don't have the numbers to back it up, but I'm guessing that Disney lost money on their investment for that ride in the long-run.

 

Ending my rant, my anger isn't about the difference in opinion. It's in the endless ranting that takes up pages on these forums that ignores the larger issues that make them pointless and unproductive. We can't change anything about how GL is run, how Six Flags operates their rides, or how the government regulates new attractions by debating points that, when one takes a pragmatic view at the societal structures in place, cannot possibly be acted on.

 

Structural issues???? With what?

 

 

And this is a forum, endless pages of nonsensical rambling on the same things over and over is just... gonna happen. Nobody says you have to let it bother you, just ignore it. When I see a subject that has been complained about to death come up, again, I just happily skim through it looking for anything interesting and then just move on. Yeah it's stupid and frustrating at times seeing the same things over and over but it's the internet, everyone has an opinion and things like that happen, no big deal, nothing to get angry about. Something to really get angry about is the ridiculous price of gas in this state, an absolute rip off and why is nothing being done about it? THAT is something to get angry about.

[Coaster Cow]

^So what you are saying is that none of this will change until America un-wussifies itself? This angers me. A lot.

 

Not at all. That's actually exactly the opposite of my point. Seeing the problem as Americans being "wussies" is what I am arguing is missing the point completely. It is not a matter of whatever mental or physical strength defines "wuss" versus "non-wuss" but a matter of economic bottom lines. Six Flags has no economic incentive to not neuter its rides to meet these standards. The legislative process works quite similarly in that these regulations are largely due to the same public outbursts to ride incidents that would lead Six Flags to take it upon themselves to neuter it. Arguing whether or not Americans are wusses is completely ignoring economic facts that are based in inherent structural ways in which we as Americans think of rides, how we process sensationalist news, and how our political system functions in the real world.

[Tmcdllr]

^So what you are saying is that none of this will change until America un-wussifies itself? This angers me. A lot.

 

And.... that's never gonna happen.

 

And how we, Americans think of rides is we are wusses and think we can't handle rides that are 'too intense" yet the same ride in Switzerland is handled just fine by the people there, who don't seem to be wusses...