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The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread


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^ Uh, so what about the other looping rides with no OTSR's that aren't Premier rides?

The trains of Outlaw Run and Wicked both have the shin bar. The X-car cars restrain you at the lap and waist. Dare Devil Dive's restraints open upward instead of outward, so they're essentially an OTSR without the horse collar.

 

Schwarzkopfs only have vertical loops so there really isn't a risk of getting thrown out because you're pinned to the seat throughout the loop, and the ones with incredibly fast/large force transitions (Galaxyland Mindbender) have OTSRs anyway.

 

The only ones that I'm not sure about are Iron Shark and Iron Rattler.

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Hello everyone,

 

Never been to this park and will be coming all the way from Baltimore the first week of April. Here at Six Flags America you can not take bags up on the platform for almost all coasters at the park. Does this park have this same policy? I figure it does but I keep hearing rumors the park does not enforce it.

 

Thank you

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Without the shin bar someone could probably be thrown from YOLOcoaster.

 

Lol, no. A lap-bar is sufficient. As far as I know, Revolution opened with lap-bars, so did many coasters. Do the physics changed since then?

 

An extrem case is the case of the Sirocco's incident. That Schwarzkopf shuttle loop (tiny lap-bars) stopped upside down, and nobody fell.

 

Dare Devil Dive's restraints open upward instead of outward, so they're essentially an OTSR without the horse collar.

 

That makes no sense. A lap-bar is a lap-bar, it won't hold you more if it open upward or what..

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Hello everyone,

 

Never been to this park and will be coming all the way from Baltimore the first week of April. Here at Six Flags America you can not take bags up on the platform for almost all coasters at the park. Does this park have this same policy? I figure it does but I keep hearing rumors the park does not enforce it.

 

Thank you

 

They didn't enforce it with me.

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Hello everyone,

 

Never been to this park and will be coming all the way from Baltimore the first week of April. Here at Six Flags America you can not take bags up on the platform for almost all coasters at the park. Does this park have this same policy? I figure it does but I keep hearing rumors the park does not enforce it.

 

Thank you

 

 

Every time I've gone they've enforced the rule pretty intensely. Either pocket everything or bring lots of quarters. Oh and have fun on your first visit!

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Without the shin bar someone could probably be thrown from YOLOcoaster.

 

Lol, no. A lap-bar is sufficient. As far as I know, Revolution opened with lap-bars, so did many coasters. Do the physics changed since then?

 

An extrem case is the case of the Sirocco's incident. That Schwarzkopf shuttle loop (tiny lap-bars) stopped upside down, and nobody fell.

 

Dare Devil Dive's restraints open upward instead of outward, so they're essentially an OTSR without the horse collar.

 

That makes no sense. A lap-bar is a lap-bar, it won't hold you more if it open upward or what..

 

Actually, this response pretty much explains it:

 

^ Uh, so what about the other looping rides with no OTSR's that aren't Premier rides?

The trains of Outlaw Run and Wicked both have the shin bar. The X-car cars restrain you at the lap and waist. Dare Devil Dive's restraints open upward instead of outward, so they're essentially an OTSR without the horse collar.

 

Schwarzkopfs only have vertical loops so there really isn't a risk of getting thrown out because you're pinned to the seat throughout the loop, and the ones with incredibly fast/large force transitions (Galaxyland Mindbender) have OTSRs anyway.

 

The only ones that I'm not sure about are Iron Shark and Iron Rattler.

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^^^The physics of a vertical loop have not changed. However, the physics of a dive loop (or whatever we are calling that thing) are very different. The shin pad is the primary restraint on Premier rides.

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Without the shin bar someone could probably be thrown from YOLOcoaster.

 

Lol, no. A lap-bar is sufficient. As far as I know, Revolution opened with lap-bars, so did many coasters. Do the physics changed since then?

 

An extrem case is the case of the Sirocco's incident. That Schwarzkopf shuttle loop (tiny lap-bars) stopped upside down, and nobody fell.

 

Dare Devil Dive's restraints open upward instead of outward, so they're essentially an OTSR without the horse collar.

 

That makes no sense. A lap-bar is a lap-bar, it won't hold you more if it open upward or what..

 

A vertical loop is A LOT different than something with a dive loop, immelman, heartline, or any other inversion. Schwarzkopf's can have lap bars only because there is only vertical g's and you are going at a fast enough speed to the point that you are getting pushed into your seat throughout the inversion. It's similar to swinging a bucket of water over your head; go fast enough and it won't fall out, but if you slow down by the slightest bit you'll lose all the water. It also varies by the type of restraint you are talking about. Gerstlauer and Maurer can use only lapbars on their coasters because they use hydraulic lapbars, unlike your conventional ratcheting type. This means that they can lock at any position and ensure the rider is secured appropriately regardless of their size. With ratcheting type lap bars, there are only a select number of positions that the bar locks at. If a person's size is in between the two locking positions, they're going to have some wiggle room so that's where the shin bar comes in to play to provide an extra level of security to riders.

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^Dude, let it go. It's already been established that a lap bar can serve as the restraint on a vertical loop. In this case, you'll notice all the guests were holding on for dear life, because that is the only way the lap bar can keep them restrained when stuck upside down.

 

Hence the reason why Premier rides have the shin pads---so riders are restrained no matter the circumstances (such as dive loops).

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^^ You don't need to be an ass. EastCoastn07 is making very valid arguments. A vertical loop with a lap bar only is sufficient, even if the ride stops. Then you have dive loops and other elements where not only are negative and positive g forces being added to lateral g forces, a lap bar may not be totally effective and require a redundancy. Having ridden Superman at SFDK many times, you can absolutely notice the effect the shin guards have on holding you in place when you are slowly crawling the the barrel roll as well as when you are getting tossed all over the place on the non inverting loop.

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http://cache.rcdb.com/a9i7ul000jvlem0tkk5l8o.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Cl5WBgtY9lQ/T8_qzDR93OI/AAAAAAAARuM/HHVORfsgC7o/s1600/IronShark1.jpg

 

No shin-bars.

And for laterals forces, I think it's more up to the seat design. Sorry if I sounded rude, but when was the last time you could get out of your seat without unlocking the lap-bar? No matter if you're upside down or not, you can't get out because of the human anatomy. (Not true for old coasters or loose bars (and Poseidon ))

 

I was responding to those who said lap-bars can't handle inversions without that shin-bar. To conclude, the shin-bar seems to be a question of comfort, even if all I heard about those is that they make the ride uncomfortable..

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You took his comment out of context. He is 100% correct. Without the shin pads, premiers lap bar restraints would NOT be suitable for YOLOCoaster because they use a ratcheting system to lock. That's 100% fact.

 

He also clearly explained why those rides you linked to photos of do not have shin pads.

Edited by Jew
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premiers lap bar restraints would NOT be suitable for YOLOCoaster because they use a ratcheting system to lock. That's 100% fact.

 

What's a ratcheting system have to deal with the shin-bar? You're probably right anyways, all I want is to understand your point. How a horizontal beam can help on lateral forces? How it change something on the locking system?... Because for me a lap-bar is a lap-bar, and you can't get out. (Well, obviously the ergonomic ones, not the beams that take over the whole row.)

 

I'm aware I can be wrong and love to learn things, I just jumped when I saw his sentence.

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I think the original discussion was about lap bars only on Revolution which I think everybody would agree don't require the premier shin guards or anything more than a lap bar. Besides, that's not even the argument that the park makes when the question comes up. It's about the seat design or something.

 

As for Revolution not being that good of a ride, it's certainly not right now. With the awesome trains SDL got I think it'd probably be in my top 3-4 coasters in the park.

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A ratcheting lap bar system has some give to it by design between ratchets, which when mixed in with the right forces could lead to your body getting enough space to slip out. Add in a shin pad to restrain you from the shins and that can't happen. The shin pad is essentially grabbing your body by the legs.

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premiers lap bar restraints would NOT be suitable for YOLOCoaster because they use a ratcheting system to lock. That's 100% fact.

 

What's a ratcheting system have to deal with the shin-bar? You're probably right anyways, all I want is to understand your point. How a horizontal beam can help on lateral forces? How it change something on the locking system?... Because for me a lap-bar is a lap-bar, and you can't get out. (Well, obviously the ergonomic ones, not the beams that take over the whole row.)

 

I'm aware I can be wrong and love to learn things, I just jumped when I saw his sentence.

 

If you had read my comment and Jew's, you would understand what a ratcheting system has to do with a shin bar. A ratcheting lap bar only locks in certain areas. You might get anywhere from 10-14 locking positions depending on how the restraint is designed. I know from personal experience that the Phantom's Revenge has 14 locking positions due to the design of the paw's on the restraint. Have you ever been on ride where you felt like the restraint might be too loose where you lower it to, but the ride op comes by and staples you in to the next ratcheting position? That's why a lap bar is not completely adequate for a ride like Full Throttle. If a person riding falls in between any of those locking positions, their lap bar is going to be loose and without a shin bar their safety could be in question. The two rides you linked pictures clearly supports my original argument. With a hydraulic lap bar design that is used on Intamin, Gerstlauer, and Mack coasters (maybe more), there are unlimited locking positions. The lap bar will essentially lock wherever the lap bar is lowered to. It is not restricted by a particular locking positions like on the ratcheting lap bar systems. The only down side to these types of lap bars, is they tend to get extremely tight in high g areas. A great example of this is Sky Rush. Your lap bar can be somewhat tight when you leave the station, but once you hit the bottom of that first drop, you can guarantee that your lap bar is going to be a lot tighter than when it started because it is constantly tightening due to the hydraulic cylinder it uses.

 

I hope this answers your question, but if you had closely read my last post you would have understood just fine.

Edited by EastCoastn07
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Dare Devil Dive's restraints open upward instead of outward, so they're essentially an OTSR without the horse collar.

 

That makes no sense. A lap-bar is a lap-bar, it won't hold you more if it open upward or what..

 

Look at 1:15

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IDK if trains have much to do with it but from POVs I see that every hill is trimmed! Quite heavily at times. Was Revolution always like this?

Looks like it would be a fun ride without, but just is really slow now.

Also call me a silly bastard but I have a feeling the ride was designed to keep you held in perfectly safely without real issue...I know crazy

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