The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[WFChris]

I know we all like being negative nancies around here when it comes to SFMM, but I would be hard pressed to think that one of the top 20 parks in the nation 'Doesn't care.' It's a huge park that's been mismanaged for years and it is hard to make any noticeable changes without spending lots of money. For every flowerbed Knotts replaces, SFMM has 20 that they have to fix to have the same end result. I would imagine its an incredibly tough property to manage...not to mention that it's a bit harder to lure people 25 miles out of the city as opposed to Knotts which is right in the middle of the urban sprawl.

 

For reference:

KBF had 3.65 million visitors in 2011

SFMM had 2.70 million visitors in 2011

 

Not quite '3 times the amount of visitors' but I guess I sorta kinda see your point. But I pretty much don't. They're two different parks.

[Double0Kevin]

For reference:

KBF had 3.65 million visitors in 2011

SFMM had 2.70 million visitors in 2011

 

Not quite '3 times the amount of visitors' but I guess I sorta kinda see your point. But I pretty much don't. They're two different parks.

 

 

I stand corrected. Not sure where I got it in my head that Knott's did 5+ million. I knew MM was usually around 2+ m. Obviously I rounded, but was wrong.

[Jew]

The moral of the story is operations suck at both KBF and SFMM.

[Sir Clinksalot]

The Million difference isn't really that huge when you consider Knott's is open 364 days per year and the Knott's number includes Haunt.

[Chrisrad]

This is exactly why my visits to SFMM went from 5+ times a year, to once a year (if that). They don't seem to 'care' about being super efficient, or providing the best possible experience; they just want to 'get by'.

 

I'll spend my money at Knott's or Disney parks, where it at least seems like they are making an effort.

 

It really bugs me that SFMM gets crapped on for the same crap other parks pull. You're telling me Knott's and Disney does no wrong?

 

Also, how is Knott's making an effort? This is the park that continuously builds one train rides that have the lowest capacity. I can't tell you how long it's been since I've ridden a Knott's coaster because I won't wait the crazy lines and I went 5+ times last year with not one coaster ridden. Most of their rides can only run one train (Monterzumas, Boomerang and Sierra Sidewinder) and those that can do more (Xcelerator, GR, Jaguar, Silver Bullet and Pony Express) ALWAYS seem to have one in rehab so they end up running one train.

 

One coaster out of 17 runs one train and SFMM is horrible. Ugh...

 

I never said they were perfect, but I would much prefer going to Knott's or Disney, over SFMM. I had a SFMM pass and Knott's pass last year, and went to SFMM once, but went to Knott's at least ten times. I just get frustrated going there, and seeing one train on a 3 year old wooden coaster, or one train on Riddler, with an hour wait, was annoying.

 

Even though Knott's might run one train on some of their rides, you have to realize that there are many other things at the park to do; you don't have a bunch of people there who are simply trying to ride coasters (which is the main attraction at SFMM). I can't tell you how many times I've been able to marathon Xcelerator, even though it has one train.

[Magic Alumni]

The moral of the story is operations suck at both KBF and SFMM.

 

Exactly!!!

 

I probably went on a rant that wasn't necessary. I get that there is a TON of stuff that can be improved at SFMM but it's just annoying to see SFMM get bashed for stuff that the other parks do as well on a continuous basis if not more but since they're the legacy of Knotts and Disney, they don't get bashed for it and it's excused.

 

The Million difference isn't really that huge when you consider Knott's is open 364 days per year and the Knott's number includes Haunt.

 

I'm also surprised to see this and give kuddos to SFMM for being so close in attendance numbers especially when you think of how much Knott's mooches off of Disney's crowd being they're only 10 minutes away and their reliance on the Haunt crowds. With SFMM being an hour from these parks, they're really packing in the attendance.

[JJLehto]

EH...we all say the same things about Great Adventure, and at least they are half assing it now! For a few years the neglect was just blatant.

And with other stories I've heard...I am prepared to say Cedar Fair just does a better job/cares more.

 

That being said, yeah it's a huge park, and part of a huge chain. Like how we accept Wal Marts crappiness but cheapness, we accept Six Flags crappiness but its good rides! And it is just difficult to maintain small park quailities with a big park.

[coasterbill]

I don't know if we all said the same things about Great Adventure. Great Adventure has problems but they have different problems. I've never seen Great Adventure run one train on any of their major coasters with the exception of El Toro during Fright Fest this year because a restraint got stuck closed and they had to repair it. It was back on the track within an hour. Great Adventure usually runs all of the trains on all of their coasters (except Kingda Ka, they usually run three) no matter how many people are in the park (and I go between 5 and 10 times a year as it's my home park).

 

That park is not without problems (lack of lighting, train stacking on Bizarro, trash on Midways during Fright Fest, Golden Kingdom being 2 separate sections that don't connect to eachother anymore, flat rides being under-staffed) but they usually run the coasters (not named Bizarro) very efficiently.

[larrygator]

The operations and attitude SFGAdv of today are light years ahead of SFMM. The same could not be said of SFGAdv 10-20 years ago. What this shows is that SFMM can turn it around if management addresses and monitors the situation properly.

[JJLehto]

I don't know if we all said the same things about Great Adventure. Great Adventure has problems but they have different problems. I've never seen Great Adventure run one train on any of their major coasters with the exception of El Toro during Fright Fest this year because a restraint got stuck closed and they had to repair it. It was back on the track within an hour. Great Adventure usually runs all of the trains on all of their coasters (except Kingda Ka, they usually run three) no matter how many people are in the park (and I go between 5 and 10 times a year as it's my home park).

 

That park is not without problems (lack of lighting, train stacking on Bizarro, trash on Midways during Fright Fest, Golden Kingdom being 2 separate sections that don't connect to eachother anymore, flat rides being under-staffed) but they usually run the coasters (not named Bizarro) very efficiently.

 

Well that's a fair point, and indeed most flak is usually at the general crappiness of the park, not the rides. They are run efficiently, especially Nitro on a good day. That line flies.

My biggest problem is rides are gone, so I pretty much spend my day on a few coasters, which is why I go only once a year now. Remember the 25 ride addition? They were crammed all over the place. Just 1/3 ran at any time and have all been removed since!

What can ya do? Its a big park and big chain...

 

Basically, its fine for once or twice a year, but I've made Hershey my adopted home park < 3

Still stoked to finally go to SFMM for WCB, even though X2 sounds like its not as awesome as it seems and now Superman is lame lol

[Manic Monte]

I disagree that Superman is lame. That ride is fun now!

[coasterbear30]

^ I agree with you. I thought that, Apocalypse and X2 were the best rides in the park...in that order.

[JJ728]

For reference:

KBF had 3.65 million visitors in 2011

SFMM had 2.70 million visitors in 2011

I just spent 60 seconds counting up all the days SFMM will be open in 2013. Judge me. DO IT.

 

....

 

Anyways, SFMM will be open 245 days in 2013, compared to KBF's 364.

 

As I'm whipping out the calculadora from my desk, here are the ratios for all you mathematicians:

Days open: 245/364 = 67.3%

Attendance: 2.7/3.65 = 73.9%

 

SFMM is open only 67.3% of the days KBF is, but their attendance is 73.9% of KBF's. Technically, if they were open the same amount of days KBF was, SFMM SHOULD have more yearly visitors. Interestingly to me, KBF's attendance includes Scary Farm, which tells me that SFMM is much busier on a daily basis, considering Halloween is so huge and lasts so long at KBF.

 

So really, people really should rail on SFMM for running more rides more frequently with one train than KBF. They are open less days and get more visitors when its open.

[XYZ]

For reference:

KBF had 3.65 million visitors in 2011

SFMM had 2.70 million visitors in 2011

I just spent 60 seconds counting up all the days SFMM will be open in 2013. Judge me. DO IT.

 

....

 

Anyways, SFMM will be open 245 days in 2013, compared to KBF's 364.

 

As I'm whipping out the calculadora from my desk, here are the ratios for all you mathematicians:

Days open: 245/364 = 67.3%

Attendance: 2.7/3.65 = 73.9%

 

SFMM is open only 67.3% of the days KBF is, but their attendance is 73.9% of KBF's. Technically, if they were open the same amount of days KBF was, SFMM SHOULD have more yearly visitors. Interestingly to me, KBF's attendance includes Scary Farm, which tells me that SFMM is much busier on a daily basis, considering Halloween is so huge and lasts so long at KBF.

 

So really, people really should rail on SFMM for running more rides more frequently with one train than KBF. They are open less days and get more visitors when its open.

 

Well, the statistics work, but here's the thing. How busy is Knott's on the days SFMM isn't open? (School weekdays)

 

Plus, if SFMM was open 364 days a year, why would there be more attendance? It would be the same amount of people going to SFMM, just different times. I wouldn't see more people going to SFMM just because they are open more often. I mean, I could see a slight increase but not much.

[Wes]

Magic is also a bigger park and thus has more staff on days when it's open.

[GayCoasterGuy]

I wonder how they compare with number of rides. Then of course, that makes me think about capacity of those rides, efficiency, etc.

[XYZ]

I wonder how they compare with number of rides.

 

Knott's Berry Farm: 39 rides in early 2013

Six Flags Magic Mountain: 44 rides in early 2013

[JJ728]

Well, the statistics work, but here's the thing. How busy is Knott's on the days SFMM isn't open? (School weekdays)

 

Plus, if SFMM was open 364 days a year, why would there be more attendance? It would be the same amount of people going to SFMM, just different times. I wouldn't see more people going to SFMM just because they are open more often. I mean, I could see a slight increase but not much.

I agree with you. As I said, "technically" (statistically) they would be entertaining a higher volume of guests. I didn't really bother factoring in other variables. But the point I am really trying to make is that SFMM absolutely sucks at keeping multiple trains running on rides, worse than neighboring KBF, especially considering SFMM is open 100 days less a year.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

However it's measured, what does it matter who has the higher attendance? Operations at both parks suck. What more do you need to consider?

 

Trying to determine who sucks slightly less between the two is about as productive as debating if Del Taco has better food than Taco Bell. They're both nearly non-edible. You can like going to one or the other or both, but no one's going to argue that you're better off going to a higher quality establishment.

 

Why does it need to get more complicated than that?

 

But the point I am really trying to make is that SFMM absolutely sucks at keeping multiple trains running on rides, worse than neighboring KBF, especially considering SFMM is open 100 days less a year.

 

SFMM makes an active decision to operate under minimum capacity, and also actively chooses to not have hardly any resources on hand that can be used in a decision to pivot towards increasing that capacity when/if it unexpectedly needs to. That is how the park brass has demonstrated that the park will be run.

 

The only way you're going to see increased capacity in anything is if the brass believes attendance is going to be higher than they currently think it will be.

[Nicholas Loya]

thrillcapitalinsider.weebly.com/1/post/2013/02/rumors-of-new-small-additions.html "It's rumored that all Six Flags Park are to be getting new attraction including what they announced last August."

I hope MM adds some good flats, they'll probably add it to the new themed area

[Jew]

Trying to determine who sucks slightly less between the two is about as productive as debating if Del Taco has better food than Taco Bell. They're both nearly non-edible.

 

That's a horrible comparison, as both Taco Bell and Del Taco are awesome as fast food options. KBF and SFMM operations? Not so much!

[GayCoasterGuy]

Nothing like a nice big order of Taco Bell stuff after a long day at a park. It's tough to get fresh broccoli, spinach, carrots and natural peanut butter at that hour. And packing it all is a mess and you have to keep fresh ice on it. A little give/take in the diet

 

I haven't been to a Del Taco in years, I don't think we have any in Chicagoland. My favorite fast tacos were Monster Tacos from Jack in the Box. With the single slice of "cheese food" placed right in the taco. Are those still around?

[Randomman295]

^ I agree with you. I thought that, Apocalypse and X2 were the best rides in the park...in that order.

You are now the most respectable person on this thread. Congratulations.

 

And in all honesty, what's with the complaining about KBF's capacity problems? I haven't been there in a while, but it couldn't have gotten that bad...

 

Could it have?

[SFMMGeek27]

I personally think it's okay if the coasters only have two trains and one is out for extended maintenance (like on Apocalypse) but what I do not think is okay is when they are only running a single train and there are 1-2 perfectly fine trains sitting on the transfer (Scream comes to mind, so does Colossus). It's really really REALLY annoying.

 

Has anyone else noticed how X2 train #2 has been sitting on the transfer looking exactly the same for over a year now? It's strange.

[JJLehto]

I disagree that Superman is lame. That ride is fun now!

 

 

It is kinda great so many years ago that ride was like OMG must get there before I die!

Now...0-100 in 7 seconds? Straight up and down and over? Pffft we can go to 128 in half the time and complete a full circuit...sometimes

I'm sure its still a fun ride but I wouldn't wait more than a few minutes at all.