The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[derekjames5265]

Fair enough.

 

Maybe I am a little aggressive, maybe a little to harsh?

 

I apologize for this.... I read these forums and am astounded by comments, often by people who have never even visited the park!

 

But perspective please!

 

I have been to parks all over the world, however I go back to SFMM the most. It is thrilling, the rides are (mostly) excellent and you get unlimited access to ALL six flags parks for about $70. It is insanely cheap.

 

Now think about that for a moment. $70 for unlimited access.

 

 

^^ Two things I must ask: have you ever been to SFMM? Sure they have some great rides, I don't believe anyone here is doubting that, but the way the park is operated just seems sub-par in mine and others eyes, and not just during the off season.

And I have never known a theme park enthusiast who hasn't liked Disney, how could it be a candy coated crap park? Disney is Disney, it's not fake it's sincere.

 

Yes, I frequently visit SFMM. It is thrilling park which is very affordable.

I have been to Disney a few times, but while it is 'Magical' a single day ticket is over $80. More than an entire season of combined Six flags visits.

Before this debate gets even more out of hand, I will leave it with a few key points:

 

#1. Please be more respectful on this site. It's definitely OK to disagree, but coming off like an "internet tough guy" isn't going to help your argument or do anything except get you banned.

 

#2. I DON'T visit SFMM frequently. I choose to back up my opinions of the park by not spending my money there (except for West Coast Bash---which to me is about supporting TPR, not the park). $70 is much better spent elsewhere, such as saving up for a TPR trip to ride a real "world class" coaster somewhere else in the country/world.

 

#3. There's no such thing as an "off season" in Southern California. SFMM not only competing with the other parks in the region, but all the other ways one can spend their discretionary income. A bad visit in the "off season" is still a bad business practice and should not be excused IMO.

 

#4. The Slingshot: It makes sense from a business standpoint. Fine. To me, it just symbolizes what SFMM is all about: taking the easy way out. That's just my take on it, nothing more, nothing less. I'll just add it to the list of things that make me laugh about SFMM and continue spending my money elsewhere.

 

1) Sorry, I was a little abrupt. I'm not an "internet tough guy" But I stand by my points. I get frustrated with people who have a soapbox, who make outlandish statements, without having any actual knowledge or experience of ride mechanics, corporate business and/or park operations.

2) How many years of saving $70 would cover an entire trip? Would love to meet your travel agent!

3) To clarify off season, I would say when the park is only open weekends and when a large portion of cliental are in school and attendance is a fraction of peak times. This is known in the trade as an off season.

4) It is a like for like replacement, on a tiny footprint.

 

Some parks have an astronomical budget to make it much more than a theme park, or are located in a higher populated area. This is the unrealistic yardstick that SFMM is being compared to.

 

Please indulge me for a minute while I try and put this in perspective.

 

Let me be clear, that this is an exaggeration to make a point.

 

Ok.

I need a car.

 

I see a Rolls Royce that costs $200,000. I love Rolls Royce's. What enthusiast doesn't?

I view it in a marble showroom, a beautiful, elegant, well manicured hostess makes me a coffee. The best coffee money can buy!

I see the car. It has a team of engineers on standby, a service centre that caters to my every whim, even when I run out of window washer fluid!

It's beautiful, shiny, runs like a dream.

It is a wonderful experience to drive, but I prefer cars with more guts.

But I can only afford $1000 for a car.

 

For $1000 I could hire it for the day.

 

Or...

 

I take the same $1000 down to Vern's used cars.

No marble showroom, just an oily forecourt, located in a cheaper part of town with a lot less customers. There are billboards with advertising to help with the rent. After all, all income helps because Vern has just come out of bankruptcy.

No elegant hostess, just a guy called Vern. He has a combover and is chewing gum. Maybe some vending machine coffee, if I have the right change.

Vern shows me an old clunker car for a $1000. It's not shiny. It runs ok, it will get me around. No engineers, no customer service,basically I am on my own. But it is mine.

It does the same, it gets me around, maybe not as smoothly, not as polished but probably more thrilling to drive.

 

I would have a car that will last for a year. A whole year.

 

2 options:

1)Either I don't buy the car, rent one the nice one for the day. I am very happy with it and look forward to next year, when I can rent it again for the whole day!

2)I buy the cheap car. I can can see how it is not as good, but I appreciate the value. I accept it for what it is. I am grateful that it works, it gets me where I need to go.

 

If I was to tell you that some people that buy the $1000 car, then stand around complaining about the service centre, the vending machine coffee, Vern's B.O. and the lack of decent landscaping on his forecourt..... If I was to tell you that, you would be astonished right?

How about other people that don't even visit the forecourt, but go and tell as many people that they can how poor the cars are, how the forecourt is ugly and the service is bad.

 

So what can Vern do?

 

A few options:

Option 1:

Vern listens to all the feedback, and acts upon it. He puts some nice flowers on his forecourt, he employs an assistant to make better coffee and gets rid of the vending machine. He ditches the combover and buys a new shirt.... but that money has to come from somewhere, so next year, the same car costs you $2000.

As the cars are now more expensive, less customers are coming. Sales slow down. Bills start to stack up. Inventory is cut back, the assistant is laid off. A cheap coffee vending machine is purchased from craigslist...... In a year or two bankruptcy is looming.

Does option 1 sound like a good business plan?

 

Option 2:

Vern does nothing, things fall into disrepair, profits are spent on entirely on more inventory. But their are cracks appearing on the forecourt, the paint is peeling on the signs.....

Does option 2 sound like a good business plan?

 

Option 3:

Vern decides to find a balance. He listens to peoples feedback, but knows that he has a tight budget. To be able to keep his cars priced low enough so sales don't dry up, he needs to improve things gradually. He knows he can't compete with the big dealerships down the street, they are in a different league.

He can't keep everyone happybut he can find a balance. He plans flower seeds for next year, instead of instant, expensive landscaping.

He buys another vending machine that sells candy, the profit he makes pays for some new paint. He repaints the signs himself, instead of employing additional contractors. Next year he will repair the cracks in the forecourt.

He re-themes an areas of the forecourt, one at a time. Budget section, sports car section, luxury section etc.

He is careful not to overspend, but now he is a little more careful with what cars he buys.

By being wise with his business plan, not overspending and gradually improving he finds he can keep prices low and finds a good balance. He is slowly improving the entire property, piece by piece.

After all, he inherited this business from his family who had neglected it for years, forcing it into bankruptcy.

 

 

Ok, I know this analogy dragged on a bit, and it is exaggerated, but can you see the points?

 

Recently a little extra care has been taken by SFMM.

Different types of rides added with additional theming ( Green Lantern, LL-DOD) versus previous efforts.

Areas of the park are slowly being worked on. DC Universe recently, soon Cyclone Bay and Colossus Count Fair.

In addition, they are still able to allocate money for future rides, without going into debt. They have just DOUBLED profits, which in this economy is very credible.

 

Sure, corners are cut with decoration, theming and guest services but they have to, for now..... but I'm sure this will improve with the right people in charge.

 

Their operating budget is minuscule compared to Disney, Universal etc. The ratio of staff to rides need to be considered..... You may say, well instead of putting in new rides, they should have more staff, but they don't even have a fraction of attendees, their revenue is not even in the same universe, so to put aside all this extra money would rise ticket prices, therefore lowering attendance, lowering revenue etc.

 

It is a business after all.

 

Anybody on here who has frequently visited the park over the years, will be able to see recent improvements, they are slow and steady, but it is improving.

 

So to summarize, be patient, give the park a chance and accept it for what it is.

Giving nicknames to park management, jumping on any critical bandwagons without having considered the 'big picture' and saying the park is 'just crap' because it is not manicured within an inch of its life is very unfortunate and makes the typical bashing statements, that are common here, seem rather rather silly don't you think?

 

 

Perspective.

 

 

Been lurking on here for ages. I actually joined just to reply to this post!

A bit long, but spot on!

Couldn't have said it better myself.... Don't you always find it's always, "I don't actually go to the park, but....here is my opinion, even though it is not well thought out, or even reasonable"

 

Myself, I have noticed slow improvements in the park, I go every week or two, yet I am always surprised by people slagging it off without anything to actually back it up!

 

Its always like,"The sound wasn't working on X2, Six Flags sucks!"

"The Revolution's OTSR's hurt, It's the Ice queen's fault!"

"Bring back the president who picked up litter, he was nice, even though he had no long term plan!"

"OMG! Tatsu had only one train running, I know the wheel bearings in one of the cars was being replaced, but who cares... Six Flags sucks!"

 

Although my dad has a comb-over, so I can't say anything about that!

[BeemerBoy]

I see a Rolls Royce that costs $200,000. I love Rolls Royce's. What enthusiast doesn't?

<------ This one.

 

 

Pave Magic Mountain.

[am1500]

I LOVE MAGIC MOUNTAIN

 

Went there on Thursday and they had both sides of Superman running even though it was a weekday. I was confused because I thought they only ran one side during weekdays but I was delighted by this surprise. I pretty much walked on twice, no wait. Viper seemed to have new wheels also so it wasn't as bumpy as usual.

 

Did I say that I love Magic Mountain? Trying to get one more day in before I go off to college!

[cedarpointfangirl]

And for those saying their coasters don't make their top ten, you just have usual coaster preferences (nothing wrong with that). Coasters like Tatsu and X2 are considered some of the best in the world (just ask anyone who isn't fortunate enough to live close to this park

 

Boy isn't that the truth! I would love to have Tatsu, X2, Scream, RR or Apocalypse at SFoT. If I am lucky I can make it to ride those once a year at WCB.

[coasternut]

I grew up in Cleveland (that explains why I'm so goofy), so Cedar Point was my home park. IMO now there is no comparison between MM and CP. I love MM much more with the number and types of rides. I feel also that the rideops are better at MM. They actually recognize that you are there, and want you to enjoy yourself. They'll actually have a conversation with you. I don't find that the case at CP the past 4 years or so. If I had a choice of going to either park (distance not with standing), I'll head to the Mountain! I've posted this many times on the Cedar Point forum, and have been ridiculed for it. I really don't care, it's my opinion and I'm sticking with it.

 

MM has really come a long way from it's early years. I remember one of my first visits, I'm not sure if the rides were more exciting or the guests. That's when gangs were roaming the park terrorizing people. Those days are long gone, and I always enjoy myself there. For me Magic Mountain is my #1 park in the U.S.

[singemfrc]

Last weekend I had free tickets to Knott's and yet chose to go to SFMM, why? because, spending the day being thrilled is more important to me than seeing less trash in the garbage bins!

Now that's the smartest thing you've said yet. I'm the same way - as long as it's not egregiously filthy where I'm literally tripping over trash and/or the que smells, at SFDK or SFMM (The only two thrill parks I go to) I don't even notice. At Disneyland, Universal, and Knotts it's a different story..since they're not thrill orientated I have a higher standard for how the park looks since I spend more time noticing it.

 

To quickly touch on another point you made earlier about DLR's admission price yeah it's pretty hefty but I would think it does cost substantially more to run that park on a daily basis than it does SFMM. (If I'm wrong let me know, it seems that way to me) Without too much trouble you can get DLR 1-day park hopper tickets from third party sources for $50-60.

 

 

And for those saying their coasters don't make their top ten, you just have usual coaster preferences (nothing wrong with that). Coasters like Tatsu and X2 are considered some of the best in the world (just ask anyone who isn't fortunate enough to live close to this park

 

Boy isn't that the truth! I would love to have Tatsu, X2, Scream, RR or Apocalypse at SFoT. If I am lucky I can make it to ride those once a year at WCB.

Yeah it surprises me a bit when some people say there are no world class coasters at SFMM. I can understand if they're not your favorite, but Tatsu is from what I've read pretty much widely considered one of the best if not the best flying coaster, and X/X2 is one of only three coasters like it in the entire world.

 

Maybe it's just a "grass is always greener on the other side" kind of thing where coasters elsewhere can seem better just because they're new/different/far away.

[alexinla]

I dont get the negative vibe of this thread either. Let's think about it. Everything the management has done in the past couple of years was excellent.

 

- Spent serious $$$ to make there main attraction reliable (x2)

- Got rid of coasters nobody wanted to ride(Psyclone/Flashback)

- Added an excellent wooden rollercoaster

- Added a unique/only one in the U.S.coaster

- Added a kiddy coaster with nice theming

- Turned a 415 foot tower everyone was thinking they should get rid off into a main attraction with 2 top rides, including a flatride.

 

That sounds like a good 5 year plan to me for a park that has not a budget like Disney.

 

AND we might get a recordbreaking ride in 2013.....

 

I dont want to argue with anyone here, but I go to the park every month(or so) and never seen it dirty(trashcans overflowing e.t.c.) or encounter rude employees. Sometimes I think people will act towards you the way you present yourself to them. I am a friendly dude and usually people are friendly back.

 

My point is just that if you are entering the park thinking Six Flags sucks, the park can never win as your attitude is already negative and things you might let slide at other places will be 10 times worse at the mountain

[Jew]

I'll just in my participation in this discussion on the thread with this: the fact the park is so polarizing means they are doing something right (the whole Xtreme thing seems to appeal to many) and lots wrong (guest service, capacity, maintenance, etc.). I guess it is in the eye of the beholder. No one is right or wrong, as we are talking about something that is entirely subjective.

 

My personal opinion is that in a service orientated business where there is so much competition, you have to strive for 100% satisfaction. I personally don't think it is a sustainable business plan to rely on having to keep adding things to the park and/or keeping your prices insanely low to offset the things that lead to less than 100% satisfaction.

 

I will also admit I do have an extra critical eye whenever I visit a theme park to find both good and bad things, since I work in the industry. In the case of SFMM, that's where I started my career. So I know a thing or two about the park. And remember busting my ass to not stack when the rides actually ran three trains.

 

...and now I'm done.

[Crazy4Coasters!]

And remember busting my A$$ to not stack when the rides actually ran three trains.

 

I thank you!!!

[Arkhamar]

I dont get the negative vibe of this thread either. Let's think about it. Everything the management has done in the past couple of years was excellent.

 

- Spent serious $$$ to make there main attraction reliable (x2)

- Got rid of coasters nobody wanted to ride(Psyclone/Flashback)

- Added an excellent wooden rollercoaster

- Added a unique/only one in the U.S.coaster

- Added a kiddy coaster with nice theming

- Turned a 415 foot tower everyone was thinking they should get rid off into a main attraction with 2 top rides, including a flatride.

 

That sounds like a good 5 year plan to me for a park that has not a budget like Disney.

 

AND we might get a recordbreaking ride in 2013.....

 

I dont want to argue with anyone here, but I go to the park every month(or so) and never seen it dirty(trashcans overflowing e.t.c.) or encounter rude employees. Sometimes I think people will act towards you the way you present yourself to them. I am a friendly dude and usually people are friendly back.

 

My point is just that if you are entering the park thinking Six Flags sucks, the park can never win as your attitude is already negative and things you might let slide at other places will be 10 times worse at the mountain

 

Spot on dude! I would also like to add I've been to SFMM those past couple of years and seen the improvements. DC Universe is great example of an awesome transformation, this area looks great! I get this feeling people who are so critical are those who go to parks by themselves or with debbie downers, haha! I always go with people who are high energy. By that, I mean folks who I know can bear the long waits in line, get pumped up once we finally get to the ride, and then just go loco once we're on it. Some of the best moments in life are sharing laughter and jokes with friends/relatives and/or seeing their faces freak out, cry, scream, get sick....this is what makes me come back to SFMM at least once a year. I can't wait to go back for FrightFest and ride the new Lex Luthor at night!

So it looks like Aug 30 may be the announcement for the 2013 coaster?...gotta mark the calendar!!

[GayCoasterGuy]

#1. Please be more respectful on this site. It's definitely OK to disagree, but coming off like an "internet tough guy" isn't going to help your argument or do anything except get you banned.

 

Thank you. I have left other sites for this sort of thing. And trust me, I can get louder and meaner than anyone I know, but online coaster geek sites are no place for it. No where is. Unless you are cornered of course

 

I'm a coaster geek and I take it probably too seriously. I have complaints, and lots of good things to say, too. The most annoying thing is getting complaints about complaining. And now, complaining about that. Full circle Full throttle...

 

Like anyone cares, but this would make me return to Magic Mountain - much faster than any new high-tech intensity machine:

 

 

(EDIT - sorry, I forgot mentioning Revo is a sour/sad topic here. Is one mention a week ok? One mention a month?)

[Manic Monte]

^ As long as you include a classic photo like that, you get a pass every time!

[Nicholas Loya]

What makes everyone think that they're going to announce Full Throttle on aug.30th?

[DBru]

http://screamscape.com/html/industry_news.htm#SixFlags

[Manic Monte]

Last year Six Flags announced all of their 2012 additions on September 1st. It must have worked well for them.

 

I know I LOVED it. It was like Christmas day enthusiast style.

[Tsm]

What makes everyone think that they're going to announce Full Throttle on aug.30th?

 

 

Explained it a couple days ago. It just got lost in everyone ranting about how bad sfmm aparently is.

 

On a brighter note just got back from the park and everything was running great today! Audio running on X2 along with the flamethrower, superman was supprisingly running both sides, and everything seemed to be up and running with efficiency!

[MontagnaMagica]

So... Are we still pretty certain that Magic Mountain is building a new coaster? After the discovery of this slingshot ride arriving at the park, I'm starting to wonder whether or not this will be their only addition this season.

 

Make me wonder why they were in such a rush to demolish Log Jammer, if they're going to wait a whole year to build the new ride...

[coasterfreak101]

Make me wonder why they were in such a rush to demolish Log Jammer, if they're going to wait a whole year to build the new ride...

 

Maybe because they're not going to wait a whole year to build the new ride?

[Manic Monte]

Yeah I'm not sure why people are already questioning the next ride. It's still summer 2012, and the focus should still be on the drop tower. Silver Dollar City aside, most construction for next year will start in the fall, once the midways aren't as packed with people.

[Xceleratorfan96]

I'm almost positive SFMM will build a new coaster sometime in 2013. The biggest evidence is the removal of the Log Jammer. Why would the park be in such a hurry to remove a running log flume that they knew meant a lot to a lot of people. My mom hasn't been to SFMM since Goliath opened and she was sad to hear LG was going.

 

On another note, the bare piece of land that LG used to occupy is quite the eye sore. It would have been once thing to remove Log Jammer for whatever reason, but they moved the surround trees, flattened the land, and even had it surveyed for a new ride. As seen by the caption and picture from The Coaster Guy:

 

This is the first marker of any kind that I have seen. It says “Gorian USA”, which is a reference to Gorian & Associates. They provide geotechnical engineering services, which means they test the earth and make recommendations on the footings necessary for heavy lateral loads, especially on hillsides. They’ve worked with Magic Mountain since the early days in helping them design proper footers for their roller coaster installations:

 

Click here to see some history on Gorian & Associates working on Viper back in 1990.

[mykolbeta]

I was at the park yesterday. Lines were surprisingly not that bad for the summer. Even rides that had somewhat long lines, were moved at a good pace.

 

Viper felt smoother than the last time that I rode it back in October. Did Viper's trains really get new wheels? As everyone else seems to be reporting, Apocalypse and Scream were basically walk-on's. Tatsu was running on one side with 2 trains. Superman was running both sides...AC was on in the 'Fortress'. Lex Luthor was using both sides. I have to say it was pretty fun, just when you think that its pretty high up...it keeps going. Same with the drop, total free fall. You think its about to slow down to stop...but it keeps going for another second or two that you don't expect. Fun. Riddler's Revenge, Batman, Goliath and Revolution were all running good as usual. X2 had audio, and flames.

 

Overall it was a good day, mainly I was impressed with the pace the ride Ops were dispatching rides.

[BlakeCoaster]

After the discovery of this slingshot ride arriving at the park, I'm starting to wonder whether or not this will be their only addition this season.

 

From what I remember past up-charge attractions at Magic Mountain like Dive Devil and Thrill Shot neglected to have any grand opening day before they opened. In fact, they may have been mentioned in the initial press release, but I have never seen them promoted or advertised like any other regular attraction in the park. I would expect this slingshot attraction to be installed and opened in a similar manner.

 

This leads me to believe there are other things going on in the park that they will announce at the end of August. And seeing a land surveying marker in the Log Jammer area is a good sign they are taking the steps to prepare for something.

[AnonymousReed]

After the discovery of this slingshot ride arriving at the park, I'm starting to wonder whether or not this will be their only addition this season.

 

From what I remember past up-charge attractions at Magic Mountain like Dive Devil and Thrill Shot neglected to have any grand opening day before they opened. In fact, they may have been mentioned in the initial press release, but I have never seen them promoted or advertised like any other regular attraction in the park. I would expect this slingshot attraction to be installed and opened in a similar manner.

 

This leads me to believe there are other things going on in the park that they will announce at the end of August. And seeing a land surveying marker in the Log Jammer area is a good sign they are taking the steps to prepare for something.

The marker is an old picture. It has been there for quite sometime now.

[Xceleratorfan96]

After the discovery of this slingshot ride arriving at the park, I'm starting to wonder whether or not this will be their only addition this season.

 

From what I remember past up-charge attractions at Magic Mountain like Dive Devil and Thrill Shot neglected to have any grand opening day before they opened. In fact, they may have been mentioned in the initial press release, but I have never seen them promoted or advertised like any other regular attraction in the park. I would expect this slingshot attraction to be installed and opened in a similar manner.

 

This leads me to believe there are other things going on in the park that they will announce at the end of August. And seeing a land surveying marker in the Log Jammer area is a good sign they are taking the steps to prepare for something.

The marker is an old picture. It has been there for quite sometime now.

 

Yeah I guess I should have posted the link to the TR too, it was in February!

 

Still, that gives more leeway to the coaster. If the park was surveying in February, they obviously had to undergo an approval process, which part of was making sure the ground was stable enough to build on! (especially in earthquake potential California!)

 

All I'm saying is watch for August 30th!!! #gobig2013

[Arkhamar]

Hmmm, I hope this hasn't been mentioned already...but I think MACK Rides could be a possible contender along side Premier Rides or Intamin for the new 2013 coaster. Their new coaster Manta

at Sea World San Diego looks like something SFMM would put up in the Log Jammer area. They also built Blue Fire

in Europa Park. Now Blue Fire combined with Manta would be something I could really see, but of course at a MUCH larger scale! The tunnel, loop, dual launches, the terrain hugging quick turn maneuvers, use of space....the fact MACK Rides was in San Diego,CA, not far from Valencia, CA, just made me wonder.......