DBJ Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 How was the Giant Drop at Dreamworld built? I actually don't have any reservations about the construction of the ride. The clamp thing is interesting to learn about though. I agree it will definately be freaky the first time! Good to see the Metro finally leaving SFMM! About time they eliminated the eyesore that it had become. I hope they do go for a height record breaker. If they put the peak of the new coaster at the highest point of the mt., how much elevation does it gain? Superman has a 328 ft. drop on a 415 ft. tower. So if they went with something like a I305, using the natural elevation gain like Tatsu does so brilliantly, they could achieve something quite spectacular. Very happy to see Thrillshot gone. Rode it opening year, complete waste of money. It really did not belong at all in a park like SFMM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Clinksalot Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I wonder if the change in weight of the Superman cars is what made them able to do this. It would be interesting to know if the added weight for LL:DOD is comparable to the weight they saved with the new cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jray21 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 How was the Giant Drop at Dreamworld built? I actually don't have any reservations about the construction of the ride. The clamp thing is interesting to learn about though. I agree it will definately be freaky the first time! Good to see the Metro finally leaving SFMM! About time they eliminated the eyesore that it had become. I hope they do go for a height record breaker. If they put the peak of the new coaster at the highest point of the mt., how much elevation does it gain? Superman has a 328 ft. drop on a 415 ft. tower. So if they went with something like a I305, using the natural elevation gain like Tatsu does so brilliantly, they could achieve something quite spectacular. Very happy to see Thrillshot gone. Rode it opening year, complete waste of money. It really did not belong at all in a park like SFMM. Giant Drop has a tube structure, and only one track for their coaster. The drop portion of the ride was bolted on the side of the tube. They put extra steel plating around the structure where the drop tower attached and bolted it all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfreak101 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Bridge failures are a lot more common than you might think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bridge_failures My question is, is there any other coaster in the world that is held by clamps? I'm asking a real question, not making a statement. I really do want to know. Does anyone know of any? I'm curious to see how many there are. I've just never heard of one. Just scrolling quickly down that list you can see that most of those failures happened because of circumstances not designed for - an overloading of people past the design capacity (we design with a higher factor of safety today), barges crashing into bridges (we design pilings and supports to withstand such things without taking out the entire bridge today), old wooden bridges failing (we don't really design wooden footbridges over big rivers anymore), etc. There might be plenty of bridge failures, but read the reasons. Only a handful in the last almost-two centuries have failed, partially or fully, because of structural deficiency or bad design. I can tell you that the Arlington Memorial Bridge in D.C. is currently in need of desperate emergency repair due to its weathered and aging structure, but that doesn't mean it's falling down. Incidents like the Tacoma Narrows Bridge and such happen because they're at the forefront of misunderstood technology. Superman's tower isn't designed to be held in constant tension, nor is it too thin for its length as the Tacoma Narrows Bridge was. Truss bridges haven't failed in the past like Galloping Gertie did, and that's my point - neither will Superman. Superman was without doubt designed with a factor of safety in mind - it can hold more weight and handle more force than it currently does with just the coaster running. Adding this drop tower might push the ride closer to the edge of that range of safety, but they wouldn't be installing it if it was going to bring the ride crashing down within a few years. And there are plenty of things they can do to mitigate those effects. The engineers at Intamin aren't stupid - if they're adding this to the sides of Superman, they aren't sitting in their little Swiss desk chairs laughing about how in ten years they'll have a lawsuit on their hands when the tower topples in high winds. **Sir Clinksalot made a really good point, before I hit the submit button. There isn't as much cyclic load being applied to the structure with the new, lighter trains, which makes a huge difference in the longevity of the structure. And that could be a reason that the tower is definitely strong enough to hold LL:DOD, though it likely could've held it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbanLegend Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The engineers at Intamin aren't stupid - if they're adding this to the sides of Superman, they aren't sitting in their little Swiss desk chairs laughing about how in ten years they'll have a lawsuit on their hands when the tower topples in high winds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeoplemoverMatt Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The Tacoma Narrows Bridge fell decades ago because of poor engineering and poor design. We've come a long way since then - the last time a bridge collapsed was what, six years ago? And it was because most of our bridges, including that one, have deteriorated over the fifty-plus years they've been in service. This tower isn't going to end up like Galloping Gertie, just like no other bridge since her has either. It's the principle behind the wave-motion that I question here- not the wind vs. airfoil dynamic. Tacoma Narrows proved one thing: The longer the unstructured span, the greater the waveform dynamics will be applied force-wise to the structure. Adding six extra tons to the top of the tower, then letting Superman off will push the oscillations quite a bit more. Considering the profile of the span (From top to bottom, not front to back) you're looking at a 400 foot long span that will be only structured on one end. Add that weight, and without a counterbalance, you're going to see some movement. That's where I'm raising the question long-term. I'm pretty sure Intamin would not be doing this project if they didn't forecast stress & waveform dynamics over the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jray21 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I know they have had to have done a lot of analysis and that they are more than confident it would work, I have just never heard of clamping being used before and not bolting or welding. I really want to know if any other rides just have clamping. It's just something I'm interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasternut Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I am very leery about Lex Luther though. In the presentation, they said it would not be bolted or welded on, just clamped on!?!? I hope it was just a mis-statement though, because a ride that is just clamped on does not seem safe to me. Yes, I am absolutely not an engineer, but I've never heard of any ride being clamped on to the supports, Needless to say I'm a big 6 Flags fan especially Magic Mountain - my favorite park. No way would either Intamin or 6 Flags (especially corporate) let this ride just be clamped on to the Superman tower. I wasn't at the M.M. portion of WCB, but I'm sure the statement was misunderstood about it's installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnonymousReed Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Isn't this there first drop tower on a structure like Supermans? Many things can go wrong but I don't see the clamps being an issue. If it would be an issue, Intamin would have bolted the track on the side of Superman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xcoaster Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I think the idea was just that they weren't welding or drilling on the existing support structure since heating or removing material could weaken its integrity. So they're affixing the new track without modifying the existing supports. I'm sure it's still being bolted to it, per-say, just without actually drilling into the supports to do it. Anyways, back to speculating on LJ's replacement and construction for Lex Luthor Just out of curiosity, am I the only one hoping for/expecting a Verbolten or Cheetah Hunt style of launched coaster (multiple launches, one to, say, take riders over Superman and the other side of the mountain, and a second launch for the return journey) or a Eurofighter for LJ's spot? Agreed, after what we heard at WCB, I'm expecting something akin to Cheetah Hunt in 2013, and some kind of sprucing up of Colossus in 2014 (possibly NTAG treatment, if they can justify the expense). Probably some other surprise attractions as well, maybe even this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Monte Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I'd love something like Cheetah Hunt meets Maverick meets ISpeed. It's one of the types of coaster that I've always wanted on the West coast, second only to a second hyper/giga. After seeing the site up close, I really feel like we're looking at a launch as opposed to a large lift hill. That's just a personal feeling though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmcdllr Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Since the Superman tower does normally sway now (if it didn't it would break into pieces), maybe this "clamping" is necessary to allow both structures to move with each other as one and independently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuschini Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 ^I think you mean dependently. I am very leery about Lex Luther though. In the presentation, they said it would not be bolted or welded on, just clamped on!?!? I hope it was just a mis-statement though, because a ride that is just clamped on does not seem safe to me. Yes, I am absolutely not an engineer, but I've never heard of any ride being clamped on to the supports, Needless to say I'm a big 6 Flags fan especially Magic Mountain - my favorite park. No way would either Intamin or 6 Flags (especially corporate) let this ride just be clamped on to the Superman tower. I wasn't at the M.M. portion of WCB, but I'm sure the statement was misunderstood about it's installation. As discussed previously, "clamping" Lex Luther to Superman means they don't have to drill into the existing structure's I-beam support. There's nothing unsafe about this method, I'm guessing the clamps they use will be something like the first picture (although a much bigger grade). You can see how the clamp tightens around the I-Beam (second picture), and they'll have dozens running vertically along the side of the tower. It won't really be supporting anything either, just keeping the Luther track from swaying (unless the Superman tower sways with it). Now as for the Superman tower, you've got nothing to worry about. It's only a 400 foot tall structure, and it's constructed strictly of steel I-beam, which is anchored by one of the biggest coaster footers I've ever seen. It will probably still be standing after the world ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susie zueck Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Since the Superman tower does normally sway now (if it didn't it would break into pieces), maybe this "clamping" is necessary to allow both structures to move with each other as one and independently. Exactly, everyone out there who thinks the clamps are unsafe are wrong. I don't think SFMM would make a unsafe ride. Like they said at the WCB Q&A they put motion monitor machines( I forgot what they are called) on SEFKs tower and found out how much the towers sway. They also talked about how launching them at different times makes the tower sway more so maybe SFMM is going to adjust SEFKs software so that when they run both sides they will launch at a distance that provides the least amount of swaying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfreak101 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 ^^You're the best. Let's quote this post every time this topic comes up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharkTums Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 It will probably still be standing after the world ends. I can see after the Apocalypse the cockroaches using it as a shrine to the world that was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 ^ The cockroaches currently in the park probably do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalCoasters Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Times for the WTF? Video of the day... On Saturday a couple of us were up on Samurai Sumit, when we heard a very familiar beat- Riddler's station music! Listen carefully (preferably headphones) and you can hear it in the background... I'm quite confused by it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jray21 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ok, I'll retract my initial statement about it being unsafe. I'm sure it would be safe because they obviously wouldn't make it if it wasn't tested and shown to work. I get that. Really, i'm just wondering if there is any coaster/drop tower out there that has done this before. I'm not asking to say see I told you so or anything, I really am just curious if this has been done before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ728 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Times for the WTF? Video of the day... On Saturday a couple of us were up on Samurai Sumit, when we heard a very familiar beat- Riddler's station music! Listen carefully (preferably headphones) and you can hear it in the background... I'm quite confused by it... That's not the Riddler music. The beat just sounds different. They lost the track when they switched over to the new sound system. I asked one of the supervisors and he said the sound department made the new, darker soundtrack to replace it. As far as I know, the park doesn't have a copy of the song anymore. Sure you can download one from the internet, but the edit they used to have didn't have all the "Ecuadors!" in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travanx Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 And like I said a long time ago, notice my avatar, the Terminator theme was way too cheesy. Just let us on the ride now!!! Also for those questioning Superman. Who of you have Engineering degrees and work in that field? I am very curious. For those talking about clamps, I remember my structural engineering professor, steels was the subject, in 2000 talking about the future, high rises would be made out of plastic. Everyone laughed, yet he was coming back from a speech he did on that very subject. That's why I ask since I am sure there are more than a few engineers in here and more curious about thoughts of how they are making this addon ride work. While Green Lantern may have disappointed, Apocalypse most certainly did not. This coaster deserves some love, because it was hauling A$$ Saturday night. It really has become a great little wooden coaster, and imo, HIGHLY underrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susie zueck Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 And like I said a long time ago, notice my avatar, the Terminator theme was way too cheesy. Just let us on the ride now!!! Also for those questioning Superman. Who of you have Engineering degrees and work in that field? I am very curious. For those talking about clamps, I remember my structural engineering professor, steels was the subject, in 2000 talking about the future, high rises would be made out of plastic. Everyone laughed, yet he was coming back from a speech he did on that very subject. That's why I ask since I am sure there are more than a few engineers in here and more curious about thoughts of how they are making this addon ride work. While Green Lantern may have disappointed, Apocalypse most certainly did not. This coaster deserves some love, because it was hauling A$$ Saturday night. It really has become a great little wooden coaster, and imo, HIGHLY underrated. Does SFMM still show the Apocalypse video while your waiting in line? Also how much is the whole LLOD going to cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ27 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Does SFMM still show the Apocalypse video while your waiting in line? Also how much is the whole LLOD going to cost? They just let us walk through the Pre-show area when I rode it during normal park operating hours at WCB. There wasn't a big line so maybe that's the reason. Hopefully they have just stopped making people watch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jray21 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 We went later on in the day when the worker told us the line was 20 minutes. It was almost an hour long. There was no pre-show though. No video was playing, and they just let us walk right on through to the station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Clinksalot Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 They need to figure out another way to do Flashpass so they don't have to stop the line outside of the preshow if they aren't going to use it. Just have that be part of the line and let people get some AC. Isn't there another set of stairs heading into the station that completely bypasses the pre-show? Why couldn't FlashPass use that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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