methylene Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 We cannot reproduce with cows. We can reproduce with other animals, namely other humans and in some rare isolated cases chimpanzees (lab-tested only...eww). No kidding. Was it an all out chimp or human that was produced? Or something more missing-link-ish? They terminated the experiment due to ethical concern during the blastocyst phase, so I guess we'll never know. Unless somebody screws a chimp or something. It only worked one way: I think human sperm and chimp egg worked but chimp sperm and human egg didn't. I forget. oh... um... back on topic.... uh.... How bout that animal testing. Crazy, man. I'm not a fan of it except when necessary for medical advances. Hopefully further stem cell research into producing human tissue will allow for testing to shift away from animals. One of the big reasons I'm going the clinical path instead of research. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiCoastal Kid Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I fail to see how having a limited selection of meat is hypocritical? Just because carnivore means that you eat meat doesn't mean you have to eat all meats. When it comes to meat, I am a tremendomeatatarian. I only eat meats that I find to be tremendously tastey, which is why I don't eat deer. I also don't east steak by itself, it's gotta be mixed with something. The hypocracy lies in not being allowed to eat certain meats if we are supposedly carnivores. If you went into a public park and threw a hot dog on the grill is one thing. If you threw a actual dog on the grill, you'd get arrested. Why, becuase society has said you can kill this but not that. Why? Because we like this one more or value it more. I wonder where exactly the cut off for usefullness of an animal is before you can grill it? Its questions like that that are my cause for calls of hypocracy. Frankly, I can give two lilly pads less about others eating habits. I only care about what I put into my body for sustanance. You also have to realize that people misuse the word carnivore out of blatant ignorance, so basically you're not nit picking hypocrisy, you're teasing at their ignorance. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheArchfiend Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 There's still no hypocrasy being shown here. The majority of the U.S. population attributes different values to different animals and then demonstrates this in their selections of food, pets, etc. They do exactly as they claim. Your best bet for 'hypocrisy' would be 'hypocrisy against evolutionary advantages' which is weak at best because it is the evolutionary development of society itself that led to such differing values for various animals. Ahh... Very good point. The defense rests. You're slowly changing my perception of this argument. But not too much Fine by me. I won't eat shellfish. Or raw carrots. I don't eat spinach. It gets stuck in my teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not For Sale Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Eh, yes and no. I understand your point about that behavior being odd, but humans evolved to have a trait that helps digest another animal's milk. Lactose intolerant people do not have this. We got this way due to a mutation, and it was favorable in the conditions that it happened in, so that's why we can and do drink milk of other animals. Actually, you have it backwards. Almost all humans (and mammals) are born with the ability to produce the lactase enzyme (to digest breast milk obviously), but due to a mutation a small amount of people stop producing lactase as they grow older. Matt Thanks, didn't know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hercules Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 Again I will say, I think some are missing the point a little. It is not necessarily about equal rights, it is just better rights than what they have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheArchfiend Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I'm not a fan of it except when necessary for medical advances. Hopefully further stem cell research into producing human tissue will allow for testing to shift away from animals. One of the big reasons I'm going the clinical path instead of research. On a somewhat related note... I'm currently in a debate with myself over whether or not I should start consuming eggs and egg based products again since I am very pro-stem cell research. What can I say, I have a lot of free time to think about stuff when I go out jogging. But I am finding myself in total hypocrisy to be against one and for the other. Color me a hypocrit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methylene Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I'm not a fan of it except when necessary for medical advances. Hopefully further stem cell research into producing human tissue will allow for testing to shift away from animals. One of the big reasons I'm going the clinical path instead of research. On a somewhat related note... I'm currently in a debate with myself over whether or not I should start consuming eggs and egg based products again since I am very pro-stem cell research. What can I say, I have a lot of free time to think about stuff when I go out jogging. But I am finding myself in total hypocrisy to be against one and for the other. Color me a hypocrit It's not totally hypocritical: We've been conditioned to work for survival of our species and are far-sighted enough to see that while in the short-term, using embryonic stem cells may cause a loss of possible life it will eventually increase the quality and duration of life for billions of people. A legit case could be made for and against eating eggs while still maintaining a pro-stem cell position. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingScooter Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Better to test the animals than me. I like my leather coats and i eat a lot of steak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheArchfiend Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 ^^ Or better yet... test and experiment on death row inmates. Have them serve some good to humanity before we kill them. And if they die during the experiments or tests... oh well. They were going to be killed anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hercules Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 That would be nice, but kind of goes against the whole thing about cruel and unusual punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheArchfiend Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 ^^ Thats where my newly proposed U.S. Constitutional amendment comes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelizeIt Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 As to whether or not animals are "meant" to be used by humans, reminds me of a movie that came out in 1995, that movie is of course Babe. For those who are unfamiliar of this movie, it tells the story of a pig raised on a farm by sheepdogs, where he learns to herd sheep with the help of Farmer Hoggett. In this movie a spiteful cat named Dutchess, (who dislikes Babe) gleefully decides one night to take it upon herself to explain to Babe what pigs are for. Dutchess explains that most farm animals have a "purpose", cows are here to be milked, dogs are here to help the farmer with the sheep, cats are here to be affectionate.......... But, she explains that pigs don't have a purpose. Dutchess goes on to state that animals that don't seem to have a purpose, really do, people have to eat, it's probably the most noble purpose of all. ***An interesting side note about this movie involved actor James Cromwell (He was Farmer Hoggett), Cromwell had been a longtime vegetarian, but after acting in Babe, he decided to become a vegan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollerholden Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I am not major animal rights person, but I did stop eating KFC after visiting this site: www.kfcruelty.com I signed a petition on that website. Also, I stopped eating all fast food after reading Fast Food Nation. You should read it Elissa, you may rethink eating at Mcdonalds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiCoastal Kid Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 ^Don't say that, the poor girl will starve to death! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollerholden Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 ^ Lol, but if the book is at all true, it's really gross to eat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goleafsgo Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 i guess it is kinda mean to breed cows and chickens etc/ just to kill them, but i dont see much point in being a vegetarian, as it isnt gonna stop any animals being killed. Also, some cows have their own field and spend their life eating grass and whatnot. When they do go to get slaughtered, it isnt like they know what is going on... I also dont see how some people can refuse to eat milk or cheese etc. the animal isnt suffering at all when they're getitng milked, its actually a natural thing happening (kinda) i am against animal testing however, because that casues animals to suffer for extended periods of time, compared to the animals just getting killed one day... i hope this post makes sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goleafsgo Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 i freeze my milk then eat it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goleafsgo Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 no, you have to whip the milk into creame before you freeze iut if you want ice cream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phazan Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 Ice cream has sugar and other added good stuff. Frozen milk is not ice cream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 And to think just a few short pages ago I was impressed by the intellectual debates that were going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollerholden Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 the animal isnt suffering at all when they're getitng milked I don't want to start any arguments, but I found this on peta2.com www.milkgonewild.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiCoastal Kid Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 ^ Lol, but if the book is at all true, it's really gross to eat it. Well, did you know there is an acceptible limit on the number of spider legs allowed in a candy bar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollerholden Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 ...no...I didn't know that. Did you know that "in 1968, McDonald's operated about one thousand restaurants, and today it has about thirty thousand"? And that "a survey of American schoolchildren found that 96 percent could identify Ronald McDonald. The only fictional character with a higher degree of recognition was santa Claus"? This book really is interesting. I did a report on it for English class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiCoastal Kid Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 I don't see anything wrong with either of those statistics. TAKE THAT MICKEY!!! AND WHUT?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hercules Posted July 8, 2006 Author Share Posted July 8, 2006 Fast Food Nation really is an excellent book. The only disturbing things that I see in there are the fact that America has become a society that is dominated by corporations, and now rely on convenience items. I realize that convenience things are much more efficient for most people with such heavy work loads, but just the fact that we have those crazy work loads is beyond me. People have so much stress in their lives in this country. A healthier livestyle would be easily achieved without stress and eatting fast food. Another thing that really bothers me is the specialization aspect of places like McDonald's and the rest of the country, but that is a whole other debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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