HAYASHI Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 im a full supporter for PETA's cause. I didnt bother to click the links, only because i knew what i would see. Yet, when it comes to food, its hard to stay away from eating a burger, or from eating chicken or fish considering the process it took to kill them. I'm glad there are groups such as them, that are protecting the vulnerable. These corporations should just do their testing on humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hercules Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 Fish Empathy?..... Yeah, that fish empathy thing that was told before is a little out there. Sometimes I wish they wouldn't seem crazy. Though, tests are showing that fish really do have empathy and sympathy emotions and are fairly smart animals. They were just trying to make a point, even though they tried to do it in a way that really came off wacko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfBeastSucks Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 These corporations should just do their testing on humans. I disagree. Testing the same things on humans would be much worse than on animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hercules Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 Why? Because you are a human? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiCoastal Kid Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 prop·a·gan·da ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prp-gnd)n. 1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause. 2. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda. So yeah, you are posting propaganda. I don't think posting videos like the raccoon is fair, or somebody mentioned the lady stepping on the puppy, because those concentrated events. In the big picture, it happens very rarely. When you see something like that happen doesn't mean you have to attack the entire industry, just that particular company. There are regulations set on what is humane or not and if I'm not mistaken the FDA does regular checks on meat packing and production facilities. True, some may not follow them 100% of the time, and when that happens it is bad, but those facilities do get checked and often are forced to improve their standards or be shut down. Also, like P&T said, I don't think anybody outwardly supports animal cruelty. In fact, I'd be willing to say that just about everybody supports the humane treatment of animals, but to say things like killing them for food and leather has all of a sudden become inhumane after thousands and thousands of years is a bit intense. In fact, I think it would have made more sense a few hundred years ago since back then they killed what they had, now we breed them in excess just for the purpose. If we were still just hunting them down and killing natural populations that don't easily and quickly propagate themselves again, then I'd probably be a little more into the whole "no meat" thing, but since they are now made to reproduce in such large numbers now, I really can't say I feel bad for eating a burger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Testing on humans would be illegal anyway. If we cut out animal testing on things like Medicine then you are stunting the growth of medical cures and effefctively killing people who might have otherwise lived through cures found by research. I hate the groups are protest violently. Find by me if you hold up signs. But when a group of activists dug up the remains of an animal breeders grandmother and held them ransom telling the man to stop breeding guinea pigs for an animal testing lab.... It makes me sick how deranged some people are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hercules Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 prop·a·gan·da ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prp-gnd)n. 1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause. 2. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda. So yeah, you are posting propaganda. I don't think posting videos like the raccoon is fair, or somebody mentioned the lady stepping on the puppy, because those concentrated events. In the big picture, it happens very rarely. When you see something like that happen doesn't mean you have to attack the entire industry, just that particular company. There are regulations set on what is humane or not and if I'm not mistaken the FDA does regular checks on meat packing and production facilities. True, some may not follow them 100% of the time, and when that happens it is bad, but those facilities do get checked and often are forced to improve their standards or be shut down. I've never really considered propaganda that. Thanks for the definition though. I do think that the video about the fur industry is fair because that is normal practice in China. There wasn't anything stated about that being the United States. It is not just one incident, but that is what happens on a day to day basis. Testing on humans would be illegal anyway. If we cut out animal testing on things like Medicine then you are stunting the growth of medical cures and effefctively killing people who might have otherwise lived through cures found by research. I hate the groups are protest violently. Find by me if you hold up signs. But when a group of activists dug up the remains of an animal breeders grandmother and held them ransom telling the man to stop breeding guinea pigs for an animal testing lab.... It makes me sick how deranged some people are. Clearly it would be illegal to test on humans, but testing on anything is just not right. And the whole medicine thing is something that I brought up back a while ago. I hate the world, and I could go on forever about food and toxins and all, but I'll just keep it short. A lot of diseases out there would be eliminated with a good diet. I too hate the radical groups that give "people like me" a bad name. It is crazy, but I do realize that sometimes drastic things have to be done. Though, sometimes they go way too far. In one instance that I believe it did not go far was when a few teens in Colorado stole (I would say saved, but the case and owner said stole) three very sick cattle from a farm that they had visited. They took the cattle and got them the proper medical attention that they needed and took them back to the farm. The owner of the farm claimed that the teens disrupted his daily operations and took them to trial. They were sentenced to 23 years in prison and their appeal was not recognized this past Monday. That is a time that I think that it is warrented. Oher times, like blowing up a turkey farm to "save" the animals is a little crazy when you are causing a riot of turkeys which kills half of them and then a quarter of them are hurt in the blast. That is just stupid. People need to realize that you can be professional and still make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAYASHI Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 I disagree. Testing the same things on humans would be much worse than on animals How do you know its much worse than animals? Do animals feel less pain? Do they not cry or hurt or fear? -we obviously wouldnt know. if some of these animal testings are the process for human products, you might as well test it on humans since the end result is for their purpose (in my blatant opinion). Of course it is illegal to test on humans now a days, unless passed by FDA. Yet for some reason, we make testing on animals ok. As if it doesnt cause any psychological and/or physical damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 ^ So you would offer yourself up for testing in the place of an animal? Now because I have a heart of stone I found this very funny. http://www.alldumb.com/item/26729/ Seriously I have no objection what-so-ever to animal testing. Or killing animals for their skins. We've been doing it for thousands of years. Why stop now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumboshrmp Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 ^ So you would offer yourself up for testing in the place of an animal? Now because I have a heart of stone I found this very funny. http://www.alldumb.com/item/26729/ Seriously I have no objection what-so-ever to animal testing. Or killing animals for their skins. We've been doing it for thousands of years. Why stop now. I somewhat agree. I do have sympathy for the animals, however if we are killing an animalfor meat, I think that the animal's sacrifice should not be wasted, and that we should use the skin also. However, I am against them doing this while the animal is alive, but really, it doesnt bother me that much. (I don't mean to turn this into a thread about religious beliefs, so don't read on if you don't agree.) What I believe is that God put animals on the earth and that humans were meant to be dominant over them. Pretty much exactly what i have read in the bible was that man was above animals. As long as animals aren't being killed to satisfy some perverse enjoyment of seeing an animal suffer under torture, I do not believe it is wrong. However, I am not against what you are doing, and I do say that if it is what you believe in, don't give up. There is no need to counter my statements with your own, I understand your message, and I think it is wonderful that people think animals are treated cruelly, however, it has been done for so many years, why should it stop now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiCoastal Kid Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Or, just to bring up an interesting thing: Humans are animals too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 ^And, to add to that, we're the top of the food chain. So, I quote Maddox," For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiCoastal Kid Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 Exactly. What we do to animals is just as bad as what they do to eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAYASHI Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 ^ So you would offer yourself up for testing in the place of an animal? no. unlike animals, i can communicate a choice to refuse. yet, im sure there would be people willing to volunteer for these study groups. would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hercules Posted July 2, 2006 Author Share Posted July 2, 2006 ^And, to add to that, we're the top of the food chain. Why are we the top of the food chain? Weren't animals here before us? Isn't this their home too? I can see that you want to eat animals. That is fine. But to exploit them and put them through misery? That is ok? You can eat whatever you want, I don't care. That is your choice. But would you slit another person's throught? Would you torture someone else? Would you beat another human? I know there are some out there that do these kinds of things, but to society that is viewed as wrong, illegal, etc. Why would it be right to do to animals? I am just out to make sure that animals get a fair chance. If you want to eat them, fine. I just want them to have a good life in that short period. I am a big advocate of CSA farms, that at least give their animals a chance to live a decent and peaceful life and they are slaughtered in the most humane way possible. This isn't a matter of just eatting meat, it is just testing animals fairly. A comment about us "being on top of the food chain" is not relevant here. Torturing anything living is not right. And to go off on the "top of the food chain" thing, we have been very unkind to Earth as a race of people. It is our home and we have destroyed most of it and used up so many of its resources. Do you get mad when a group of teenagers went into your local theme park and trashed it? No, of course you wouldn't. You would think that they were disrespecting it and you would get mad. We are majorly disrepecting the Earth. Humans as a whole believe that they are above everything and that is what is going to end us. Sometimes I hope it ends us sooner than later. I could go on, but I think I'm going to go do something else to take my mind off of things and to prevent a stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 We're at the top of the food chain because we can kill any animal in the world, eat them, take the skin and make a nice rug out of it. It doesn't matter if they were here first, we're just too advanced for them. No matter how much people want animal equality it will never happen. It's simply a fact of life that we are better than them. Also another reason PETA suck. They said that even if scientists developed a cure for AIDS then they would still want all the research destroyed and never used. So millions of people have to die for a stupid useless chicken? That chicken is never going to do anything in it's lifetime, they lay eggs and bugger all else. We have complex lives, we experience emotions far greater than any animal on this planet, we've left this planet in search of other life, we have complex societies with law order and justice. And a chicken should be treated as equally as us? ^ So you would offer yourself up for testing in the place of an animal? no. unlike animals, i can communicate a choice to refuse. yet, im sure there would be people willing to volunteer for these study groups. would you? I very much doubt you would find someone of sane mind willing to be tested. And no I would never allow myself to be tested on. We have animals to do that on. By making medicine we're playing god. Maybe some people were meant to die and let's let them. There are some things in life that you need to accept, and one of them is death. I'm appauled that you can even think that. I think you might actually be the only person who's intelligence is on par with a chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiCoastal Kid Posted July 2, 2006 Share Posted July 2, 2006 By making medicine we're playing god. Maybe some people were meant to die and let's let them. There are some things in life that you need to accept, and one of them is death. Well, I guess you're playing god by using computers and the internet. I wouldn't be able to read your messages so quickly this far away in nature, so obviously you're an obomination. I guess I won't have to worry about reading any more of your replies then? I bet you hand weave your clothes too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiCoastal Kid Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Well unfortunately, and this is basically a rule of nature, for every advancement there are numerous failures. It's natural selection; the principles of which are not solely limited to evolution, but also all kinds of progress. You learn from your mistakes just as evolution learns from what doesn't work and scientists learn from what kills a mouse. Also, what about animal testing to cure diseases for animals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hercules Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 And a chicken should be treated as equally as us? No, just more fairly. I very much doubt you would find someone of sane mind willing to be tested. I would if they paid me enough money, promised not to ruin my eye sight like they do with rabbits and other animals and promised not to cut anything off. What can I say? I'm a poor college kid Apparently they belive that god meant for us to rule over other animals. We have the power to do that. They say that the animals have no spirit for that we could do those stuff to them. Even I have to admit that is a little off base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hercules Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 There already are better ways. There are vegan pets foods and companies that don't use animal testing in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiCoastal Kid Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Well, I think we're starting to use "better" in a highly subjective manner, now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hercules Posted July 3, 2006 Author Share Posted July 3, 2006 I use "better" in terms of "better" for the animals. I'm sorry if the use of the word "offended" you. I wasn't talking to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAYASHI Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 We have complex lives, we experience emotions far greater than any animal on this planet, we've left this planet in search of other life, we have complex societies with law order and justice. That doesnt explain why humans shouldnt be the ones being tested on. It doesnt surprise me your understanding is narrow in reguards to simple comparisons. In focus, fear is the same in all species that have a thought process. Its not about the level of achievements nor contributions to society. It's about being harrassed and abused/ tested against your will. In addition to your AIDS comment. I'd like to know where you got your facts about PETA's statement. PETAs argument is about the waste of time and methods, testing monkeys, who have different behaviors and biological/chemical reactions to HIV injections versus humans. You spend 6 years injecting the disease in monkeys to find a cure and realize once you have the cure, it doesnt work on humans. The research is waste. very much doubt you would find someone of sane mind willing to be tested I know i wouldnt find someone. But i know there are people that would do it. Plus, its not about who would do it. The main point is that animals are being tested that arent volunteers. Imagine if they were to go back and do that to humans, like they did during the 1900's-30's where they would inprison you for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not For Sale Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 PETAs argument is about the waste of time and methods, testing monkeys, who have different behaviors and biological/chemical reactions to HIV injections versus humans. You spend 6 years injecting the disease in monkeys to find a cure and realize once you have the cure, it doesnt work on humans. The research is waste I need proof, has this ever actually happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonOfBeastSucks Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 They would probably pay you if they do testing on you just like donating organs or other things in your body. Of course they would pay you, but I am certain that no sane person would ever take such a risk just for money. The human testing idea just amazes me because no matter what pain is inflicted upon the animals or harm they face, it would be much worse for a human to go through. As Ed said earlier before, a chicken (or any other animal) is not going to change the world, but a human can. That was the point of my original comment on the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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