DrachenfireOP
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Posts posted by DrachenfireOP
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I'm 6' 4" and 250 lbs. and I can manage just fine in the normal seats on Alpie/Griffon and can get on AC. I know I'm 4 inches taller than your friend which might edge him into "big boy" seats as mentioned above, but he might just get into the normal seats! I actually have a little room to go for Griffon/Alpie without it being an issue. That said, thighs are the issue on AC, so if his legs are larger, he might be SOL there since that's a "you fit or you don't" coaster
Just use the demo seats at the entrance to the rides to be sure. If the belt clicks, he fits! On AC if the harness on the demo locks, he's good to go. LNM, Verbolten, and Tempesto won't be an issue at all.
For non coasters, the only rides in the park that MIGHT be an issue are Mach Tower and Wave Swinger. Again though, he is almost certain fine for those (and neither of those is going to ruin your trip if he can't. Mach Tower may well not even be running when you're there, and if it is, it's not really the best drop tower out there other than a killer view).
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Anyone else think the queue area seems pretty small for a CP coaster? Maybe the massive size of the track is making it seem smaller than it actually is (or maybe it'll feel larger in person), but when I think of the queue areas for rides like MF, TTD etc, this just seems rather small. Maybe (probably... hopefully) they're going to staff this thing to the point of being an absolute capacity monster, and maybe the line is larger when you see it in person, but it looks so tiny on the graphics!
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^ I would ride the hell out of a beaver car. But lets not forget the real mode of transportation for the great white north: MOOSE!
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Why do you keep calling the building a loading zone?
because I can read blueprints.
All other inaccuracies (and there are many) in your post aside, look at the attached image and tell me this: if the queue enters from the green star, follows the yellow path, goes up a flight of stairs, passes through a building, and then on the other side follows the red arrow down an ADA-accessible ramp back to the starting point...
...WHERE else do you suggest that the loading area might be?
Once again you're hinging your assumption on the fact that this is a ride, which is not confirmed. It's fine to assume it is, but to STATE it, is something a bit different, which is what I'm trying to get you to notice about your verbiage. Also, if this was a loading station for a coaster with an entrance and exit pathway how you highlighted (which is again very possible, and I reached the same conclusion about 10 pages back), the track only seems to be able to come out the front. I'm not say it can't do that, but if it's a single story building, for the track of a coaster to go out both ends with stairs oriented on the northwest and south east walls, it will either need to go over or under what you are calling a queue path, and directly through another building. Maybe this is a single in/out style station. Maybe the track goes underground (doubtful from looking at the sewer drainage plans on the same blueprints) maybe the track goes over a path (doubtful given the height of the building, although not impossible either).
Or... maybe it's a covered queue. You might also note that the ADA ramp you pointed out is labeled "alternate ADA access ramp," which means it could be an exit doubling in use for ADA access, or it might just be a ramp to let wheel chairs in from a different direction than the main entrance.
And once again, there is the very important point that they have not filed a height waver, meaning this attraction almost certainly stays on or near the ground. Even cobra's curse is over the height restriction, so this would be a very short coaster if it is one. That doesn't rule it out, but that is something that really should be noticed when making predictions on the information we currently have.
Again, I am not saying you are wrong, but I don't think we have enough information to make definitive claims. You have already decided on certain "facts" that are unproven, which means all the arguments you're making hinge on unproven facts. That makes any argument speculation. Which is fine. But you need to acknowledge that.
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As to the stairs/buildings in the plans, the old Le Mans queue area was a building about that size and yes, had 2 stories worth of steps involved.
the steps were outdoors, the loading zone was not in a 35 foot long building, and the cars were at ground level - clearly not the case here as the queue walkway cuts between the two buildings. if you really think those plans support a le mans revival then I really just don't know what else to say, except that you're wrong.
Why do you keep calling the building a loading zone? How do you know it's a loading zone? Are you inside on this project to make such claims? Does it say that somewhere on the plans that I'm not seeing? There was a 35ish foot long building literally as a part of the Le Mans raceway. That's just a fact. A building can be a part of an attraction without being a loading zone. It's called a "covered queue" so guests can wait without getting rained on. I see no reason why this couldn't be a covered queue. It actually makes more sense as that than a loading station, because the loading station theory doesn't have the most logical entry and exit points for track, whereas if this is just a covered queue, then it has EXACTLY enough entrances/exits (one of each). That area has a few hills, so it's completely possible to need to go up a few steps to get to the "level" surface needed for a covered queue.
I agree that it looks like it could also be a station for a family coaster, and in fact that is what I would prefer. But I don't have any degrees in a relevant field to know for sure. If you do, ok then I suppose you have a one up on me. There's also the fact that they still haven't filed a height waver, giving an increased likelihood this attraction stays on or close to the ground.
Once again, I will say for the third time, this is not my first guess. My first guess is still family coaster. But my guess is a guess, and I would put strong money that anyone in a position to do anything but guess is under an NDA and not participating in this discussion. I would prefer not to be told "you are for sure wrong" by someone who themselves does not "for sure" know any more or less than I do.
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Huh, I wouldn't rule out a return of the Le Man's raceway either. Not saying that's it, but the building plans we've seen would match that, and it could easily go under the flume.
Are we looking at the same plans? Ive never seen an antique cars ride with a 35 foot long loading station elevated 14 steps off the ground. not to mention the logistics of crossing over the train tracks several times.
Also, didn't they remove Le Mans because of how expensive it was to run the whole thing due to maintenance and, above all else, the cost of using gas for the cars? I doubt enough has changed in that respect over the past ten years (2006 was the final year Le Mans ran) that a similar attraction would make sense.
The park has changed hands twice since that decision. The blowback from removing Le Mans and then Wolf 3 years later was pretty big in the local community. They pull out the cars all the time for special events because people loved them so much. There are also many other parks still running their car rides, so I don't see why it should be considered unreasonably expensive. If they did a scaled down version with fewer tracks, it would fit the more realistic usage they were seeing after the 90s, provide the family ride people enjoyed, and not cost as much to maintain. Plus, they still have all the cars as far as I'm aware (they sure parade at least a few of them out often enough).
As to the stairs/buildings in the plans, the old Le Mans queue area was a building about that size and yes, had 2 stories worth of steps involved. Nothing in the plans screams roller coaster either. Those buildings are TINY! I think a family coaster is very possible, but it's not a guarantee and unless the teaser is designed to throw people off, I really don't see the park having two different car themed family coasters.
Oh, and last I checked, the Quebecois still speak french so I wouldn't rule out a French sounding name.
Like I said in my first post, it's not where I'm putting all my eggs, but there's plenty of clues to support it, and nothing to suggest it as something to rule out.
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Huh, I wouldn't rule out a return of the Le Man's raceway either. Not saying that's it, but the building plans we've seen would match that, and it could easily go under the flume. Le Mans was HUGELY missed by families when it left, and I know the park got quite a few complaints about it going. Could be all smoke and mirrors still, but I wouldn't personally oppose a family car ride returning to the park.
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Definitely my new favorite color scheme on a coaster. Also, very excited to see a lack of seatbelts.
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Wow great photos! I'm actually really pumped for this ride, and I normally don't like spinners. BGT has one of the best spreads of coasters out there (definitely in the south east for sure).
Also, those gaboon vipers are nothing to mess with. Their fangs are like 2 inches long and they deliver more venom than any other snake in the world. Fortunately the stupidity of their name reflects their demeanor. They're fat and lazy and often won't bite even if you poke it. Not a risk worth taking since they can and will totally kill you with one bite though.
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^ Asking the important questions.
But seriously though, how is public lewdness NOT expected in Vegas? I'm not saying it's right, but like, are you honestly telling me this is the first time something like this has happened?
Maybe the couple was riding in this taxi and thought the ferris wheel fair game
Oh also, judging by their mug shots, I think maybe one was done but the other wasn't
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^ I've heard a lot of speculation on the topic, and a lot of "logical sounding" reasons, but never anything that is concrete. The reasons I've heard before are:
1) They already had a working two train model for physics simulations, so they added the third on to the existing model which made things a bit different (the 1-2 connection articulates in the middle, between the two cars. The 2-3 articulates way closer to car 2 than 3).
2) It assists the weight balance on the holding chain, making it slightly "back heavy" to counteract the larger weight of car 1-2 on the steeper slope (using ergonomics to save the chain).
3) It allows a better view in row 3 with the stadium seating.
Any or all of the above could be right, but also should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Best overall layout:
Drachen Fire
Eagle Fortress
Medusa Steel Coaster
Montu
Best Layout thanks to Themeing:
Black Mamba
Nemesis
Honorable Mention:
The Beast. While not all of it is the most exciting, the low to the ground nature of how it follows the terrain, coupled with totally unique ride path makes this an all time favorite of mine. I don't think the same layout would be as good on different terrain.
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There is one thing that I don't get about roller coaster in general, how could a good coaster have a bad layout (like Ride of Steel at Darien Lake and Six Flags America)? and how could a bad coaster have a good layout (like Drachen Fire at Busch Gardens Williamsburg)?
I never got to ride Drachen Fire (I was 2 when it closed) but I think it had an incredibly inventive layout. I really wish that Busch Gardens would hire Mack to remake it as a mega coaster (of course that will NEVER happen ) I guess it must have just rode like garbage.
As for Tennessee Tornado, I guess I put it on here because the layout really is nothing special, but combining the historic (for me being so young) effect of riding an arrow looper combined with its location makes it a good coaster. That's me at least.
A lot of people will tell you it rode like garbage. I honestly didn't find it much worse than other Arrows tbh, but I am very clearly in a minority of people who liked DF and who likes current standing Arrows. If you like Vortex at KI you probably would have liked DF, though the trains on DF were less comfortable by far (you were very boxed in.) I also really wish the train lights that made it a red streak in the night had caught on.
Mack would be a fun re do, but I still want to see RMC pay tribute to that layout on that site.
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^ Yeah same here. After riding it, Tennessee Tornado isn't really that bad of a layout (though I too was dubious), but it is the ultimate "too little too late" coaster. They just put SO damn much into the failed pipeline concept. If they had moved in TTs direction in the early 90s, they might have stayed competitive. Instead, they spent millions into a prototype, and pushed it to the end even after it became clear no one was willing to buy one.
It really wouldn't have taken much to keep Arrow competitive, but they just refused to admit it until it was already too late and bankruptcy was inevitable (again).
Also, while Ninja isn't the most pleasant coaster out there, it's a very inventive layout. Unfortunately, the "inventive" nature of it is less "fun thrill ride" inventive and more "leaked CIA interrogation technique" inventive.
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Pretty sure they're installing the drop chain right now!
If you're referring to the chain for the holding brake, that was installed before the track piece was lifted into place.
As can be seen in this photo:
Oh weird, it really looked like they were doing something to it. There were guys on that area and a tower crane attached to something in the center of that part of the track.
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Pretty sure they're installing the drop chain right now!
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Did any of the people hating on Anaconda ride it in the 91-93 era by chance? It actually was pretty good back then because the MCBR didn't slow the trains at all. Going through the second half of the ride at the intended speed was actually pretty fun. Now that they bring trains to a near full stop, it's just... weird. Don't get me wrong, it's about the "worst" example of Arrow transitions around, but it's definitely worse now than it was at full speed. Then again, going through the corkscrews at the current speed makes you "hang" instead of being pushed into the seat, which I actually think is kinda awesome.
My candidate for worst layout would go to XLR-8. Talk about a snooze fest. No real drops. No real swinging. Just some slow, uneventful turns at a nice, boring pace. The terrain it went over was flat and boring, and it had no theming to redeem itself. Later they did that thing where they ran the trains backwards, and it didn't help the ride at all. With coasters like Eagle Fortress and Big Bad Wolf around in the same era, it just plain sucked. If XLR-8 came before the bat or BBW, I'd be more understanding since it WAS one of the early ones. But Arrow/Huss had already done The Bat and was working BBW side by side, and XLR-8 was the best they could come up with on their own?
Of course, that's defunct, so my nomination for currently operating ride goes to MeanStreak. There's plenty of Arrow/Schwartzkopf coasters from the 70s-80s that don't have great layouts, but it's not fair to hate on them with modern eyes, because at the time they were built, they were at the edge of the thrills. But MeanStreak came along in an era where some of the best wooden coasters ever had already been built. It looks awesome from off the ride, and then you get on and it's just... boring... and it's also rough as hell. It wasn't super fun pre-trim era, and now with the trims, they took a crappy ride and made it worse. I didn't ride it in the early 90s, so maybe it was better opening year, but man that ride manages to be too rough AND boring at the same time, which should just not be possible. I mean, Blue Streak gives a better thrill for crying out loud.
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BTR at six flags great adventure!
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Yeah, it blows my mind this never happened to Rattler
Anyhow, as others have said, SOB had MASSIVE structural problems that went beyond merely a rough ride. I think it would have been less of a refurbish, and more of a complete re-build to have RMC come in. I bet they could have done insane shit to the SOB layout if KI had been willing to pay, but I bet the sticker price would have been huge given the structural upgrades that would be needed, and while we all know now it would be worth it, I'm not sure KI would have paid that price given the fact that they'd been burned on SOB in the first place.
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Alpengeist blows Banshee to hell anyway. They're not even comparable.
B&M Inverts from 1992-2001 are easily their best work IMO.
Agreed. Banshee isn't a bad ride, but Alpengeist is still my favorite invert of B&M, and Raptor, Fire Dragon, Ice Dragon, and BTR all rank above Banshee for me. Doesn't mean I dislike Banshee at all, just liked the ol' high-force days of B&M.
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^ gonna have to disagree with the lack of flat rides at BGW. I don't know of many parks with as many flat rides as them (knobels maybe?) Six flags and Cedar Fair parks tend to be coaster heavy more often than not. My GF won't ride any coasters, even verbolten, so she stays home for six flags or CF parks most of the time, but loves BGW since there's plenty of rides she'll go on.
I do agree that a non-inverting and/or family coaster would round them out even more since they already have some high octane stuff, but anything they add will work really given the spread they already have.
RMC is great, but honestly an Intamin woodie would be an awesome way to go if they do finally decide to push for one.
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Hey guys, I think we have an arrival
P.S. IMO the track is not 90 degrees after the MCBR because the track would have to curve out more at the bottom, something that the trains probably could not handle at such a short height, or maybe wear and tear?
G-forces are the answer for the not-vertical question. The trains are much heavier than on a ride like Maverick. Just think about how much you get ejected on Maverick's first hill. Now imagine similar forces on a train as large as a dive machine. That's why rides with vertical, near vertical, and past vertical drops always have single to three car trains. It's also why the actual vertical drop on dive machines have a holding chain at the top. (While dramatic effect is awesome, it came about to solve the g-force problem with such a steep drop. Similarly, Griffon went floorless because of train weight, not for added thrill. The added thrill was just a bonus). It's also why modern hypers and giga's keep the curve going right until the pullout, with very little straight section the way old Arrow coasters used to.
Then again, at this point in engineering, these "standards" are overcome more and more. Just look at how steep the drop is on Mako for example. They are really pushing the limits of engineering steep angles on longer trains these days.
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What's the terrain even like in that area? Obviously there's the ravine that Alpengeist and Le Scoot run through, but it isn't nearly as deep as, say, where the Rhine runs. What kind of terrain do they really have to work with?
There are some hills in the area. If it drops down the ravine where Le Scoot and Alpie are it could be a considerable drop. Imagine the coaster interacting with those two rides.
There isn't really much to work with back there actually that isn't already taken up by Alpengeist or the Log Flume. Alpengeist pretty much goes all the way back to the Festhaus loading area, and there's the service road between Alepngeist and DarKastle which is needed not only as a service road, but for emergency vehicles. Other than that, you're mostly looking at flat ground. Between the train and the log flume there isn't much room, and it's mostly flat. There are small hills, but nothing that would allow for a big trench drop down like you have in the old BBW site pre-Verbolten (since they leveled a lot of that out for the Verbolten show room) or LNM. On the other side of the train is also flat, and is actually a very small area between the train and the service road. Any ride crossing the tracks there is very unlikely, and a wooden coaster would shock me even more because of the size of their support structure vs. the clearance needed for the train (leaving very little space left over til the service road).
As to interaction, while not impossible, there isn't much space left around Alpengeist in that area that new construction wouldn't violate a reach envelope for either ride. What little space there is between Alpie and the flume is used by yet another service road for the water main return servicing for the flume. The flume is a pretty tricky animal because there's lots of pavement and piping going on back there. Not impossible, but rather impractical. I'm not opposed to ride interaction, I just don't see it as super likely (I still say they missed an opportunity to wrap Tempesto around AC... only half joking hah)
If they wanted to be really funky and creative, it could go over pathways in France and into that little grassy area behind the Royal Palace Theater, but that would involve going over some large eating areas, paved areas, Trappers, the employee park entrance, the train, caribou station, and multiple shops. That's unlikely.
As I see it, there's really only three major options worth entertaining on the current information:
1) This is a family coasters.
2) This is not a coaster
3) This is smoke and mirrors and if there is a major ride coming, it's going somewhere else.
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Anyone know/have a guess why the tower cranes are fully extended right now like they were when topping the ride off?
Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread
in Theme Parks, Roller Coasters, & Donkeys!
Posted
I always wonder why some parks go the spiral staircase route for block brake evac stairs, especially ones as tall as this one. I mean, they clearly had the space for a more traditional staircase. Spiral stairs are easier to lose your footing on. Having landings every 3/4 story or so just seems safer, and easier for guests to walk down. I don't have a fear of falling or a fear of heights, and have climbed several coaster lifts in my life (tallest being Alpengeist) and even I get little fleeting thought in my head when you look down 10 or 15 or 20 flights of stairs in a single line from the crown. I don't think I'd be afraid of going up or down a spiral staircase like this one, but I'd still prefer to walk down a stair set with landings than one continuous spiral, especially from that height. Also, I can safe from experience TONS of guests ARE afraid of going down these stairs, and having landings helps ease their minds some.
Hell, even with landings Dive Machine block brake evac stairs are no joke!