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Posts posted by Coasterguy21

  1. Nickelodeon owns 0% of any of their parks; it's just a licensing agreement. Triple Five built and owns both parks.


    And as best I could tell, Cedar Fair never owned any portion of the MoA park...it was an operating agreement they dumbed into when they bought Knott's. They also got out of it before it became NU.


    NU in American Dream is trashy because it's in NJ.

    Did Nickelodeon own the Orlando resort (now defunct) and still operating resort in Punta Cana or is that also similar?


    The now defunct Nickelodeon Hotel was originally a Holiday Inn Family Suites that was then rebranded into Nickelodeon via a partnership. In 2016, Holiday Inn reverted it back into a Holiday Inn Resort. The decision is rumored to have happened for three reasons

    1) Nickelodeon didn't have a presence in Orlando much anymore

    2) The hotel needed many repairs and it was the perfect time to rebrand

    3) Nickelodeon had just partnered with Karsima Hotels to open up the Nickelodeon Resort in Punta Cana


    The hotels are operated as a partnership between Nickelodeon & Karsima (with Karsima doing the operation). Another one will be opening in Riveria Maya, Mexico.


    Like stated previously, Triple Five owns the parks in the two malls and the Nickelodeon theming is just licensing. That's why the park at MoA had to change names to "The Park at MoA" between Cedar Fair pulling out (and the parking losing the PEANUTS theming at that time) and them securing the rights to Nickelodeon.

  2. Upon further inspection, it actually appears Hollywood Casino originally went after him for the name "Hillbilly Hollywood". After that, Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux Community went after him because of their Mystic Lake Casino, in which he ended up then petitioning their trademark. This seems to be a never ending battle that has since had him decide he wants to protect the name "Mystic" just like they have attempted to. Here's a summary of all filed protests for Adrenalin Attractions: http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pnam=Adrenalin%20Attractions,%20LLC%20%20


    Note the case for Mystic Timbers is now listed as "Cancellation Pending". http://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?pno=92072576&pty=CAN


    He's saying he is just trying to police his trademarks and that he has sent dozens of letters similar to the one he sent to Silver Dollar City. Usually the company would then call and they would work out parameters, but he is shocked to be sued by Silver Dollar City.


    In the end, I believe this will be dropped and they'll both be able to keep their names. But, this is the world we live in after all. I don't believe anyone would be confusing a lot of these brands.


    Not entirely unsurprising as I was sure this is what it would be eventually (and more so once Be-Bop's closure was announced).


    What does surprise me, however, was that they fit it in on Be-Bop's old site but then didn't include the other kid attractions around. I figured it was going in there so they could theme and tie all the existing attractions in with the new ones, but this does not appear to be the case.


    And are they just moving Big Dipper in front of Zach's Zoomer to make it "Woodstock Express" or is it an entirely new coaster? It looks like they are bringing a different kiddie coaster in.

  4. I know it is unlikely to happen, but if Cedar Fair could obtain the rights to manage Moody Gardens (in Galveston) under a similar set-up as Gilroy Gardens that would make for a nice foothold in the area. It might not significantly increase attendance at either but could drive people to purchase season passes.



    As far as the KC location goes, it will never be re-opened as a waterpark under CF. It will be solely a real estate flip for CP. The sports park idea will not work because that strategy relays on have hotel rooms to book for these participants which CF does not have in KC.


    That's a good idea.


    As for the KC waterpark, I wouldn't be so sure about that. They made it clear to the local newspapers that they feel it could create synergy with Worlds of Fun/Oceans of Fun. Of course, they're looking into it still, but did state if they bought it, they would open it under a different name that is not Schlitterbahn. Either way, even if it was just a flip, $6 million doesn't seem too bad as an option. But with them wanting to close before the end of the month, I'm not sure if they'll finish the "fact finding stage" in enough time. They'll retain the brand for the Texas parks (that could still change though), but they said KC would be rebranded if they bought it. EPR Properties, who owns the mortgage, expects it to be paid in full, no matter what!


    Just curious, does anyone think it's possible that Cedar Fair will buy the KC Schlitterbahn and relocate all the watersides from there to Worlds of Fun since it's so close.


    Possible, not not super likely! They could disperse the assets to many of the parks. However, when Geauga Lake's WildWater Kingdom closed, they scrapped everything. Some of the slides weren't even 10 years old. Slide relocation or not, the land the park sits on could be worth a pretty penny due to its location. It'll be interesting to see what options they pursue with it! They kept the option in for a reason. The Henry Family still plans to own the South Padre Island Schiltterbahn (but will have to rebrand due to Cedar Fair taking over the brand), so there is interest in the KC property for one reason or another.

  5. In this article, Investor Relations has released some info on the branding of the parks and some info on the Kansas City option: https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2019/06/13/cedar-fair-schlitterbahn-sale-option.html


    In short, with the purchase of the two South Texas parks, Cedar Fair will take over the branding rights for Schlitterbahn. The Henry family will still own the South Padre Island location, but will have to rebrand seeing as Cedar Fair will not be changing the name of the other two locations (its still a "probably won't change the names").


    As for Kansas City, it does appear that Cedar Fair is fairly interested in purchasing the park through the option. As discussed earlier, it would be worth it for the land alone, it still does carry the hefty mortgage though. IR did say that if they bought the Kansas City park, they would rebrand it (good idea to get rid of the Schlitterbahn name there) and they would use it as another waterpark to help build their Worlds of Fun/Oceans of Fun Season Pass base. They also like the location near Legends Outlets.


    They're just weighing the options to see if its the right fit or not.


    It is kind of nice to see Cedar Fair getting back into the purchasing regional parks/water parks game (starting with the waterparks). Once they sold the two Knotts Soak City USA's in SoCal and then closed Geauga Lake's Wildwater Kingdom, I thought they were done with standalone water parks. Seems they're comfortable enough to move forward with it now.

  6. Also make sure to stop in downtown Grand Rapids. They have an amazing craft beer scene


    As for the park. Unless you go on a Saturday the dry side shouldn't have crazy lines. Wildcat and Mad Mouse are the ones that really ever build up a crazy wait. Thunderhawk seemed to have some issues early in the season and kept having to go down to one train last year. If you are into waterparks they have a massive one. 3 wave pools, 2 kids areas, lazy river and lots of body, tube and family raft slides.


    We plan on going opening weekend and will report any noticeable changes we spot and then give my usually yearly prediction for the next off season that is always wrong lol


    I can't stress the first sentence enough. Depending on which way you plan to drive, the Beer Scene between Kalamazoo & Grand Rapids is just astounding. If you like beer, then stopping at one or two of these is recommended (in Downtown Kalamazoo, Bell's is the place to visit but then visit the Kalamazoo Beer Exchange which has been voted one of the best bars. Beer prices there reflect actual buying trends, so its just like the stock market. Founders is a must visit in Grand Rapids as well, the atmosphere is great and they have terrific beer)


    I'm with Bill on the Dunes as well. Visiting anywhere along the Lakeshore is a plus. Michigan's Adventure isn't too far from Pere Marquette Park in Muskegon.


    As for the park itself, the waterpark is fun. If you only plan on doing the ride side, then its a half day (just like everyone else said). The longest lines you'll see will be at Wolverine Wildcat and Corkscrew probably (one train operation on each). Shivering Timbers may have a line, but you'll still be able to get a few laps in on it (same with Thunderhawk, which is a smoother SLC than many out there). Mad Mouse is hit or miss with lines sometimes. Big Dipper and Zach's Zoomer, the two smaller coasters, would be the last two to hit to finish the coaster lineup (both run one train but usually wait times aren't too terrible for them. Zach's Zoomer is actually a pretty fun junior woodie).


    In respects to flats, a lot of them are just your standard carnival type flats. Falling Star used to be my favorite flat there until the Gliders opened (and Falling Star has since been removed). Once you finish your coaster laps, maybe just a few of the flats would be appealing to you. If you want to do RipCord, you have that option. If you are interested in the water rides then you have Grand Rapids, Adventure Falls & Loggers Run. HydroBlaster is a fun waterslide type raft ride that's in the dry park and you don't really get too wet on it. But, at that point, you might as well hit the waterpark (which could get really busy).


    If you stick with the rides, then yes, half-day and move on to the Dunes or something beach related.

  7. Construction walls have gone up in the Triceratops Encounter area of Jurassic Park at Islands of Adventure. Will be interesting to see if this turns out to be the thrilling rollercoaster that has been rumored to fill the void left by Dragon Challenge.


    In another interesting note, Screamscape reported that Universal has filed a trademark for "Jurassic World: Camp Cretaceous". It is unclear if this is for the Orlando park or one of the overseas parks, however (as the Jurassic World franchises have performed really well worldwide). It could become the updated version of the present Camp Jurassic. A popular rumor is that Jurassic Park won't see the overhaul that Hollywood is seeing and, instead, Jurassic World may just go in the rumored future park. Guess we just have to ride the rumors out and see what comes. Just no overuse of video screens, please?

  8. [

    Well, here's the list of rankings:




    SeaWorld Orlando is still holding off CP in terms of attendance (although considering that CP gets most of its business over a few month span of time and SWO is 365, CP is kicking the crap out of CP). But that's also because SWO is a shell of what it used to be. Blackfish hit the parks with SeaWorld in their name hard.


    But I still think that in terms of how the GP see things -- not necessarily us because we're a niche group -- theming, landscaping, and park aesthetics carry more weight than quality of unthemed, outdoor rides. So that's how Disney, Universal, and the SeaWorld parks are able to charge so much more and get people to travel from across America to attend them. The non-themed amusement parks generally just get locals to come who don't spend as much on a daily basis. SeaWorld is still incredibly expensive, so even though the park usually seems dead, they probably still make money, because they extract so much from guests. Its $100 for a ticket, and you don't see the generous discounts for their tickets that you have at the amusement parks unless you sit through a time-share presentation. Season passes also tend to be a higher multiplier over a single day ticket than the Six Flags parks and one-off regional parks.


    Yes, those are the rankings we have been referencing the past few pages. People will travel for any park they feel is worthy to spend a vacation at based on their tastes. If we were to go off of theming or all-inclusive in every day vacation taking, no one would visit anywhere but Cancun, Hawaii or someplace in the Caribbean. Regional parks vs. Larger Parks is a different question. The fact that SeaWorld Orlando and Busch Gardens Tampa (both great parks and both in a large tourism market) pull in less than 500,000 more than Cedar Point, a seasonal park located in the middle of nowhere in a relatively mid-sized market does point to the fact that people do view it as a "destination" and not just a one-off. I get where you're coming from and the logic does work for some other parks in the Cedar Fair and Six Flags chains for sure. Operating season, however, does not have an impact on how people view a park, it just means its open less or more!


    CP is kicking the crap out of CP


  9. Is this coaster going to be near their Shark Exhibit? Will they theme it like they did with Mako in Orlando?


    Hopefully they do because they did a great job and brought life back to the Shark part of the park (which was always one of my favorites.)




    It's not. The closest animal attraction to Mako will be Wild Arctic. Mako is being built adjacent to Journey to Atlantis.


    They did announce that they were going to be pumping some money into a Shark Encounter renovation though.

  10. I guess I'll have to discover the landmines over time. I guess it might pay to re-ride when comes out as. One thing I'm wondering about with RMC Gwazi is the quality of the remaining wood. If some of it has gone into disrepair due to the perils of being in Florida, RMC may only be able to use some of it, and not make use of the entire structure.


    Some parts of it (from the structure to some of the queue structure) has already been recycled and re-used at other parks in the chain. They may be able to reuse parts of the layout and footers but they'll have to replace more of the structure on this one I feel.

  11. I mean, I'm not trying to take any stances or make any social commentary, I just want to save verbiage and write less -- which is why I like abbreviations within reason. And I never said I didn't like Steel Vengeance. Its my #1 steel.

    Well, if you do that, it will continue to come up as it did in your original post (and my quote box).


    The things you store your things in when you ride...yeah, those get filtered too. Just a heads up. And if you ever want to talk about that launch coaster with the big loop at Six Flags Magic Mountain, yep...filtered as well. Its all in good fun. Bill has a lot of them in his post above


    Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I really do hope that RMC Gwazi does keep a dueling aspect as two separate tracks. It would make it fun and unique.


    And boldikus!

  12. Coasterguy21:


    First thing, you made a lot of really good points, and were friendly for the most part, but using the quote function and changing what I wrote is so not cool man. I would appreciate if you edited and removed the quotes that you used of me. I don't want something floating around the internet of something I clearly did not say. I think its a total waste of time of type out Steel Vengeance when we all know what I'm talking about (its a terrible name anyway for such a great coaster, so there's not a huge need to get bent out of shape over not writing it out).


    But anyways, my observation is that the GP for the most part cares about theming over speed and thrills. But quality theming is a lot more expensive and hard to pull off, so that's why only a few parks attempt the theming, and the regional parks and SF and CF duke it outo over the thrills. So my argument for RMC Gwazi rests on the idea that people will care more about the rides with great themes and stories (or in this case proximity to parks like that) over the big rides where you throw stats and numbers at people.


    Mean Streak RMC was a huge opening for the local markets who love CP and for all enthusiasts, but it wasn't like it was exactly getting national media attention -- maybe some of the paid off clickbait that may have been blasted around the internet. Hopefully there's a day where the majority of America loves thrill rides, but for now, its something that's regional or niche based.


    Incidentally Steel Vengeance is a coaster that is amazing regardless of what actual or made-up records it may or may not have. When you ride it, you just understand the excellence behind it. No stats or records needed.


    You might want to double check that! It's called a word filter. When you don't type out Steel Vengeance and abbreviate it, that's what comes up. It's even in your original post. The site automatically does it. And it's absolutely hilarious whenever it happens (especially when the new people realize it). There are tons of good ones out there


    Full Throttle

    There's tons, man. Tons!


    Steel Vengeance did have quite a bit of media attention (even nationally) on opening day. It's a great ride.


    :lol: I love TPR.

    Yes. Best word filter ever, Steel Vengeance's enthusiast nickname is so silly.


    As for the new coaster itself, I'd air that very few guests will care that it's Rocky Mountain's "highest profile installation" in their history. It's a new, insane, awesome Rocky Mountain coaster replacing a rough, boring wooden coaster, what more is there to say?


    This! 100%. I'm so excited over this coaster.


    Do you think that people care about records? That's just a marketing thing.


    While yes it is just a marketing thing, marketing does go a long way! Especially for the GP. Building a record breaking coaster at one of the most popular amusement parks in the country (where it had been anticipated for quite some time to replace Mean Streak) does make it extremely high profile!


    All of I am too stupid to spell Steel Vengeance so I'll just write SteVen and pretend I'm being cool's "records" were made up. A hybrid coaster isn't a real thing, steel vs. wood is only determined by the type of track, what they use to support the ride is irrelevant. Either way, the GP doesn't care about those made up records that only enthusiasts would care about, they just care about the end game result.


    And yes, steel vs. wood is only determined by the type of track, but what they use to support the ride is NOT irrelevant! Wood structures handle support different than steel structures. Wood structures also have to be strengthened and replaced, and also have a bit more of a sway factor. The supports do help with ride experience in some ways, believe it or not (I mean, would the second half of Steel Vengeance be the same if you were not in a mess of wood? You could just be flying under steel supports and it wouldn't be nearly as fun or thrilling). And hybrids have been around for awhile...Gemini, Excalibur, Cedar Creek Mine Ride, Great White, Hades 360, Hoosier Hurricane, Voyage etc... And yes, while theoretically you can make up any record, these records are big for a park like Cedar Point to be able to tout. That's their history and they are used to marketing like that. The GP does care to look at records, they might ignore them in the long run because we've all heard things said in line that are blatantly false, but the records do have some effect on the GP (and, in some cases, the enthusiasts are the ones that tend not to care about records).


    The talk about RMC Gwazi being the most prolific park is because its at a 365 park, so close to Disney World, and at a higher tier park. Arguably Twisted Collosus has been the highest profile RMC so far -- in a 365 park, close to Disneyland, in the most prolific SF park, on a coaster that Hollywood loves to use.


    Don't get too tied up with CP. Its all of our favorite parks, but its not really a huge blip on the radar of the average American. Its only the #3 Cedar Fair park in attendance actual (behind Knott's and Canada's Wonderland). I am too stupid to spell Steel Vengeance so I'll just write SteVen and pretend I'm being cool was an enthusiast's coaster. The GP only really know and care about the Disney or Universal parks, and their home regional park. That's why Twisted Tiger could be so prolific -- its relatively close to WDW. And, SeaWorld/Busch are in a higher tier than Six Flags/Cedar Fair. Come to think of it you could also say that Lightning Rod is up there, as Dollywood has some GP appeal. But of course it never actually runs.


    I'll agree with everyone there. This is, without a doubt, a highly prolific project for RMC. Busch Gardens Tampa is just outside the main tourist corridor of Orlando but still is able to pull from within that tourist region as well as beachgoers and local population (That stretch of I-4 from Tampa/St. Pete over towards the Space Coast his fairly densely populated). This will be the most attended park, in the grand scheme of things, that they are building at. And who knows what it may lead to? SeaWorld may love working with them and decide to put in a Topper Track at SeaWorld Orlando, right smackdab in tourist central!


    Twisted Colossus was a big project, and I'll say it and Steel Vengeance are pretty much the two big ones to date, with Lightning Rod being up there too due to its uniqueness. At the time Twisted Colossus opened, the park wasn't open 365. Everyone can argue what a flagship is versus whatever, but I believe that Great America & Great Adventure have more to offer than Magic Mountain (of course, that's my opinion). Also, its proximity to Disneyland is a moot point. They are 2.5 to 3 hours apart with traffic and SFMM is too focused on thrills to be able to draw many families with young children to the park.


    As for Cedar Point ranking in attendance compared to other Cedar Fair parks. I obviously love the park as it sparked my passion for coasters, but it being #3 is proof at how great it is. And it isn't the enthusiasts that make it so because they don't make up as much of the attendance as families do.

    -Knotts Berry Farm - Knotts is located in the Los Angeles Metro Area and just 20-30 minutes from Disneyland. It is open year round, is themed and geared towards families and thrill seekers alike in a tourism market. Of course it will have high attendance numbers and I hope that continues.

    -Canada's Wonderland is located in a metro area with almost 6 million people and it is the only real amusement park around.


    Compare that to Cedar Point, built in a non-tourist market and its closest big market (Cleveland) has a metro area just over 2 million. For 2017 (because 2018 numbers aren't available yet), according to the Themed Entertainment Association's Global Attractions attendance report, Knotts pulled in about 460,000 more people than Cedar Point, a significant number, but that's to be expected in its market. Canada's Wonderland pulled in 156,000 more people. That is a significant note due to its location. Cedar Point actually pulled in almost 300,000 more than Six Flags Magic Mountain that year and Cedar Point was also only 320,000 behind Busch Gardens Tampa. My point here isn't to be a Cedar Point fanboy, but you keep writing it off because there are other parks that are attended more. That's the way it works with markets. But, for its market, Cedar Point can hold its own and it isn't just the enthusiast that keep the place going!


    Going by those attendance numbers alone, yes, this project is prolific (and you can bet it'll break records that Busch Gardens will want to advertise). It is their most prolific in terms park attendance and park location (and BGT is one of my favorite parks). But in terms of scope of project, Steel Vengeance may be hard to beat! Not saying it won't though, we'll find out soon enough! I'll agree with you on some aspects and agree to disagree on the others.

  14. I hate seeing any coaster junked needlessly, and I highly doubt Firehawk is really "at the end of its service life". But whatever...


    I can totally buy that it is. And seeing as it sits in a prime piece of land at the edge of the park, it was prime for removal.


    There aren't many Flying Dutchmen models around and Vekoma has since upgraded the technology for new generations of it. For that reason, I wouldn't be surprised if parts are harder to come by for the older models. Batwing at SFA is stated to be closed for the season and Firehawk has had a lot of downtime. To close a ride and scrap it while utilizing the parts to keep Nighthawk going is a pretty good plan.


    Would I love for it to be a new coaster for Michigan's Adventure? Absolutely (and the last one was a Vekoma too). But, this just makes much more sense!

  15. I really hope its not Vortex, but I totally accept the possibility that it may be!


    My final prediction is Firehawk, with Vortex not far behind. Firehawk has low ridership and has been known to be a maintenance problem. It could make total sense for the ride to removed and the parts to be used to support Nighthawk at Carowinds (much like Stinger does for Invertigo).


    Vortex, while it is known to be rough, still does get a lot of ridership.


    Firehawk has a flying theme so that could fit with the air being quiet. That also fits Vortex as well, however. Removing Firehawk gets rid of a low-ridership maintenance plagued attraction and frees up some area along with the Dinos area and would allow ample room for the B&M. R


    I really hope it is not The Bat. I know it sits way back there, but it gets decent ridership and is just a great ride in my opinion.


    Time will tell though...less than an hour until it is known!.

  16. Anybody hear about an accident on magnum this past weekend?

    News story....



    A friend sent this to me. Not sure if this is old or new, but she said it was on the news this morning.


    I did hear about this...when it happened 11 years ago .


    As stated above, it is an old article. I was on Magnum this past weekend and she was running fine...right up to the ejector air on the return trip (and the bruised thighs to prove it...but still love it!)

  17. I'm not nit-picking. Just a friendly assist. Yukon Striker will be 232ft, above water level, plus another 13ft deeper into the tunnel, for a total of 245ft. Windseeker is 301ft, Behemoth and Drop Tower are 230ft, and Leviathan is 320ft. Yokon Striker will be the 5th ride/coaster over 200 feet at Canada's Wonderland! . .pretty awesome.


    I'm not nit-picking here either, but I've seen several sources (and RCDB) claim the official height of Yukon Striker is 223 feet. You'll have to dive more than 13 feet to ensure the track, train and people can clear it. This height also makes sense with the Valravn crew lately that mentions that they'll still tie the height record next year but lose the drop, speed and length record.


    And, as stated, Leviathan is 305 feet.


    But still quite the skyline coming together there. A Dive Coaster on the skyline looks great anywhere and it's nice Canada's Wonderland is getting one with an awesome underwater drop! That'll be what helps make this ride one of the best IMO!

  18. ^Matt Ouimet (the former CEO now Executive Chairman) was the one that didn't like relocating rides. That was mostly from a maintenance point of view and he said it wouldn't work at a second place. With that said, SteelHawk (Knott's WindSeeker) did get relocated during his tenure.


    The present CEO, Richard Zimmerman, hasn't made any statements regarding relocated rides. Doesn't mean he doesn't stand by the same ideology though.


    Assuming it is FireHawk and assuming it is for maintenance reasons/costs then it probably would be scrapped and the parts used to support Nighthawk. But, let's say that FireHawk is being removed because it's a low capacity ride for the size park it's at, then it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that it would be relocated. Highly probable? No. But slightly? Yes.

  19. I hate the no boos. I get they are an easy money maker, but they shouldn't allow them in the mazes.


    According to the last bit on the sign, they don't.


    Well that is new for this season. About time they do that.



    But also...


    Don't get your hopes too far up! Pretty sure that was just for the dorms that will be being built http://www.mcall.com/news/local/parkland/mc-nws-south-whitehall-dorney-park-employee-housing-20180920-story.html

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