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Posts posted by BRTeller

  1. 6 hours ago, Animal said:

    I wonder if anyone will try and get their money back for season passes they bought this year considering all SEAS parks did advertise these rides opening in 2021. It’s a legitimate argument and borderline false advertisement. 

    I won't be asking for a refund, but I will be asking for an extension. I personally paid for the top tier membership with the expectation that I'd be able to ride at least some of these coasters this year. Everything since the beginning of the year has been reduced and the Busch parks honestly were the worst in terms of available rides. We cancelled a few of our trips in light of this news, I didn't expect them all to open, but I did expect at least one or two by haunt. We'll likely hold off or shorten our Orlando trip for October, hold off on BGW for their haunt and hope that the Christmas event isn't reduced again. The only park due to the states absurd protocols that I don't blame the company on is this park, which we decided to hold off just because California needs a bit of time to get back to the real world still.

    I gave a lot of leeway and bought full passed in 2020 and 2021, I think it was supposed to carry over but honestly I didn't mind all that much since the parks clearly needed it then. From my perspective, the parks this year held off opening due to marketing and not so much the issues of 2020 so I'm to the point I want the service I paid for.

  2. I'm so glad I'll have one of these contraptions closer, we spent an entire night re riding the one in Branson at Bigfoot Park. These things are insanely fun, terrifying and great all around rides. Surprisingly the drop tower is way more scary once you're on it versus the slingshot. I'm assuming this version will have both since the concept art shows the slingshot attached to the backside of the tower which is identical to Bigfoot Parks, it is also a seatbelt only model and is quite terrifyingly awesome.

  3. I'm going to go off of the last 15 years and parks I could go to again and haven't.

    Six Flags America, when it's an extra 30 minutes to go to GADV it's hard to justify going to it. Even though it's an hour and a half away, I haven't gone in a decade.

    Idlewild, I've only done it once and while it's a nice little charming park. I haven't gone since 2008 and don't really have any plans to unless they build a new family coaster. Likewise, I live 30 minutes from Dutch Wonderland and have passed it 100 times or more, but I can't justify making a day out of it when I can just go to Hershey. Even though they have 2 coasters I would enjoy, I find myself just waiting for a younger family member interested in going rather than myself riding a couple of things and leaving.

    Lakemont, the operating schedule is too annoying to bother with it. I've gone to this park when it's supposed to be open for it to just be closed, got the credits about a decade ago and while the classics are decent I hated the park. The only park I've ever been to they kept operating rides in a thunderstorm. The scariest memory I have was the slow load/unload while we were essentially trapped on the Skydiver as we finally got off in the middle of lightning storm, they were still putting riders on! I don't know who was more crazy, the people riding it anyways or the people operating the ride, that's Altoona for you.

    Sea World San Antonio - I can't see myself going back, it's a strange park with okay coasters. It's really out of the way for us and if we're in the area there's enough nearby to try different things. I hold SWO near and dear to my heart but this park felt like 20% of that park in almost every way.

    Every other park I've been too, even small, I've enjoyed enough or have had reason enough to go back. Even the parks I don't like all that much like the OC boardwalk, at least have enough of a reason to check them out.

    Here's some honorable mentions, some defunct:

    Hard Rock Park - The park was cool, but expensive and we found ourselves spending just a few hours and that was with re riding everything. Clearly we weren't alone in our feelings and while it was cool, it would of taken a lot of motivation to go back to it over Carowinds or any other park within 8 hours.

    Nascar Speed Park - Not much to do, but I love roadside attractions for some reason so to say I'd never go back or feel the need to go to is probably not true, but it's pretty lame compared to everything in the area.

    Pedroland - It hardly exists anymore and I did stop by recently to get a good laugh. I can't believe the few rides that are still there are even standing anymore. About a decade ago they were refurbishing the coaster and a bunch of other things, but I've never actually witnessed anything ever operate. That's probably for the best!

  4. On 8/23/2021 at 8:40 PM, boldikus said:

    To be completely fair, SWO started after Universal posted about ice breaker not opening. The "tired" joke in that one article from SWO is deserved. I've thought it since the beginning, reveling in another parks misfortune doesn't help them and if they want to pick on someone their own size take on Disney, now I'd get a kick out of that. Two giants that are doing well would be much more interesting. I'll admit I chuckled at the last tweet from Universal, but the "feud" thing works well for charities, sporting events and things like that, bullying not so much. 

  5. I work a ton so my time as I've gotten older is limited with my companies, so I normally buy them unless the park is dead. I'd rather have a good day and enjoy myself than missing out on the rides I went to ride. Even if I'm not re riding a bunch, the extra time saved gives us time to explore areas we otherwise wouldn't of appreciated or known about. Even though I control my own schedule, weekends are naturally more open so we're at parks on the busier days, fast lane, fast passes, VIP tours, etc give us the ability to use our time wisely at parks.

    • Like 1
  6. 52 minutes ago, thrillseeker4552 said:

    I was referring to the rate of acceleration. Sandy accelerates incredibly quickly for an LSM launch, from a dead stop. We already know Intamin's new LSMs can get 100+ mph - see Red Force in Spain. I'm not guaranteeing a retrofit is possible (I don't work for Intamin), but just making some inferences about modern LSM technology that in 2003 was out of question, hence why hydraulic launches were so popular at the time and are now pretty much phased out.

    And yeah, this particular incident did not involve the launch, but as we know all too well, Dragster's launch is anything but reliable and is of course not going to last forever. I think if Cedar Fair were to do something like this (big, big if), it would be because of the entire ride's slew of issues top to bottom over the last 18 years and not just because of this single isolated incident.

    This is all hypothetical anyway. I just know Cedar Fair is really cutting the crap with their high maintenance and unreliable attractions (see Volcano, Firehawk, Vortex, and their other recent ride removals, many of which were still very popular attractions), so it makes me wonder about the future of Dragster.

    I don't think it's completely crazy to assume something will change, just a question to what. Could be a line re-route (which given the coasters history probably should of happened sooner), which kept similar issues with Kingda Ka at bay.

    I'm sure something will be different, just will take time to know what. The ride is very high in maintenance, is iconic, popular and has all of these positives and negatives surrounding it. Maybe a retrofit would fix some of these issues, maybe more can be done with what's already there to expand it even more.

    It's an interesting situation which I'm sure will result in some kind of change or removal, time will tell though. I'm interested in what's to come, but I really hope the person injured pulls through and relatively speaking ends up being okay. I couldn't imagine how I'd be feeling if it was my loved one or even witnessing something so traumatic.

    • Like 3
  7. 12 hours ago, mnreggie said:

    Keep in mind the age of these rides, their environment, frequency of use, the load forces on parts, etc... 
    It's obviously not a rollercoaster, but I run a canning line at a brewery. You'd be amazed what happens to a simple sealed bolt after a few hundred thousand actuations. Stress fracturing can often not show up until just before the part fails, rust can do some weird things internally, just friction can so some absolutely insane things. (for example, I go through 3 pairs of stainless bolts holding our keg machine ramp, these wear completely through just from vibration of 12k kegs a year)

    Manufacturing defect? Naw, the level most of these firms operate at isn't that. 
    Park neglect? At best - maybe. Could be a monstrous number of factors as many of these rides have sat still for longer than usual then suddenly put back into operation by teams that may be less experienced than usual. Unless they're completely stripping and rebuilding every single one of those trains every off season, it's really hard to catch some long term wears. 

    I think you nailed it on the head, these seem more of issues of wear and tear and stress fractures (for El Toro and Dragster) more than anything else. I think that poses the question what is TTD's service life given the ride does produce some extreme forces to the train, structure, etc.  El Toro being that many of the parts are easier to replace it's not as much of a concern, but there's a reason after consistent use for decades some rides need re tracked and others torn down (Hulk and Volcano respectively). Of course it could be an issue with the parks inspection process, but I think what we're seeing has more to do with things getting old and worn out in high stress environments as you've pointed out. I'd expect new procedures to be put in place for PM before we see it operating again at a minimum.

  8. Yes, I've noticed that it's been loading slow. I run a few high traffic sites and I've noticed that it's isolated to this forum and not the others on the site. My best guess without seeing the internal workings is that the the database tables since they're so large might not of been indexed properly and the SQL server/service is having a hard time processing the large amount of data and nested data. Just an educated guess from my past experience with this sort of thing, but I'd look into it. If it's indexed properly it'll also save you a TON on server resources.

    • Like 1
  9. 44 minutes ago, Mike240SX said:

    To make use of both the MaxAir and Wicked Twister site would require a LOT of relocations - they're not that close together.  Ferris Wheel, Troika, Tiki Twirl, and Dodgem are all between the two.  Unless some/all of these are also headed out of the park, I'm not sure how much room you think they have to relocate these to.  I'd say Windseeker would be the better removal; it's right next to WT and basically never runs at this park anyway due to the constant wind coming off the lake.

    ...But I guess I could see it.  Remove the drive-'em cars at the north end of the park, put Tiki Twirl and Troika there.  Might as well tear down the Ballroom, since they removed the classic arcade I don't think it serves any value, and put Dodgem and the Ferris Wheel there.  While we're at it, let's just tear down the entire Frontier Trail area...who needs trees and a bunch of stupid culture with lame shops no one cares about? /sarcasm

    Seriously, I'm all in favor of the idea of a beach bar/restaurant.

    I don't want them to remove any history, but every ride in it's current location has been moved from another location after Wicked Twister was built. I have no clue what they're going to do, but I do see the ferris wheel being relocated freeing up a ton of potential space. I don't really see the dodgem moving, but who knows, Cedar Point has a way of relocating rides around that park that I've never seen before from another park.

    I don't see them touching the frontier trail, I think the park is self aware enough to realize it's a necessity to have these calm and shaded areas. The area around Wicked Twister as it is, is not one of these areas as it's essentially surrounded by Gatekeeper anyways and concrete paths.

    I'm all for a nice proper beach restaurant though! I also wouldn't mind a launch coaster of some sort around that area. Time will tell what happens, Cedar Point has always been one of those parks I'd swear one thing would happen (like demolishing Mean Streak) and then the thing gets the craziest RMC makeover I could of ever imagined. Cedar Point is interesting because it's the only park that I've been to that every employee, visitor, etc is a self proclaimed "Coaster Enthusiast", and I hear everyone complaining about the "GP" obnoxiously by every other person in line... and they don't see the irony which is quite funny if you ask me. It's kind of turned into this weird atmosphere that I haven't experienced anywhere else. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing honestly, but the point is the park knows it's audience well.

    • Like 1
  10. Just to add a bit more speculation to what could be replacing it, someone in another group pointed out the past attractions book showed MaxAir in one of the photos as a defunct ride. So there is some speculation it was quietly snuck in as being removed as well. Now I do know they've been working on it on and off this year, so who knows. Maybe they're cutting their losses at this point or it'll be fixed. Leaves a lot of room for potential expansion if that goes and they relocate the ridea around that area as they've done before.

  11. On 6/16/2021 at 3:33 PM, bert425 said:

    so what you're saying is you DIDN'T get on it in 10 minutes.

    based on your hints, you would have waited 1 hour and 20 minutes (minimum) to get your ride, since you got there right at 9, and basically stood in line waiting for Steel Vengeance to open - instead of riding other things open during early morning hours.  Actually, you would have stood around doing nothing for ~2 hours, since you recommend getting there at 8:30 parked.

    my time is worth more than the cost of FL+, so it's foolish not to buy it, and just do it that way (and also enjoying any other early entry rides that are open, if you're a hotel guest/pass holder)

    Yeah, this is not advice I'd give to someone with or without FL. Hopefully people are weary of listening to going to SV first and we're not just outliers. 

    Get there early, absolutely! Use this time wisely though, SV as you stated doesn't open until 10:15, with crowds flocking to it. Completely skip it during early entry, it's a waste of time. Instead, get on Raptor, Magnum or MF (You decide which) and Maverick (in that order). You should be done around 11 or 11:30, maybe get a few rides on SkyHawk and CCMR while no one's bothering with them yet. Then head to SV around noon to 1pm when all those early riders have gotten their ride and the line will likely be about half of whatever it was earlier.

    Or stand around waiting and miss out on rides to be the first on. Which if that's important to you, go right ahead, haha. For anyone reading this though looking to get more than a couple of rides in a day and the ability to ride everything at some point, this works with the current schedule very well.

    Also, never listen to the parks estimated waits for SV! I've seen it at most 2 and half hours opening weekend. It absolutely gets busy, but I've seen 45 minute waits listed as 2 hours more often than not.

    • Like 1
  12. Here's a few of my favorites:

    Impulse at Knoebels, my fiancee and I ended up riding with another group. The one girl obviously terrified grabbed her hand as we all had them in the air. So we were all holding hands unintentionally straight up for the ride photo, we most certainly bought the photo.

    Over the weekend a guy that was extremely confused on how SV could go upside down and be safe as a wooden coaster. After talking him into riding it and explaining it's perfectly safe, explaining he'll have the time of his life and getting him to work up the courage. Afterwards he gave me the biggest bro hug when he saw me in the park thanking me up and down for talking him into it.

    A few wardrobe malfunctions always make for a good laugh, a bit embarrassing, but funny none the less. The most recent was a girl freaking out behind us on The Voyage and having a good laugh about it with us. Explaining the second half she couldn't get it under control since, well, it's the Voyage's second half.

    Plenty of stories of catching hats (since we typically ride in the back) and being the hero for ten minutes giving it back to the person that thought it would be lost forever. We've developed a skill for catching loose articles from other riders.

    I'm sure there's a million more stories I can't think of, the Impulse one was pretty hilarious to us at the time though. It's kind of crazy how quickly you can make friends with complete strangers at amusement parks and those are always the best (and funniest) moments.


    • Like 1
  13. 1 hour ago, Mike240SX said:

    Staffing for rides has never been a problem. They have no issue dedicating 20 people to work the carousel (a slight exaggeration but not by much). The staffing problems have been food service aside from Melt.

    Not entirely true, the first few weeks had about half the staff at almost every attraction. Some rides were closed due to staffing. 

    The melt also had major staffing issues as well. The poor waitress we had was one of two managing half the tables. She was really good and overwhelmed, but she was on the brink of quitting. 

    Luckily morale is way up and doing much better overall everywhere around the park. The first few weekends we went was entirely different though. 

  14. 1 hour ago, Mike240SX said:

    The parking gates open at 8:30. You want to be there at that time. Get FL+.

    Sorry. For the double post; can't figure out how to edit to include a quote on mobile.

    They’ve been over compensating wait times. Even today Steel Vengeance was 45 minutes and listed it as 2 and half hours. Many rides were walk ons and shorter waits. 

    It was busy today, but CP is getting back to normal. Some hiccups and reduced hours still, but staffing is much less of an issue. 

    EDIT: Also, do NOT go to Maverick or SV first. I know it’s tempting, but you and everyone else has the same idea. 

    I would highly recommend Raptor, MF then Maverick and finally SV since it’ll be open and the crowd will have moved on. Noon to 1pm are really good times for it every day we’ve been there. 

    Follow the same strategy with FL and hit Iron Dragon if you have FL on the way and CCMR earlier on. They tend to get lines later and don’t offer FL. Early entry does nothing for FL so Raptor is a nice easy walk on. 

    • Thanks 1
  15. 10 hours ago, CaptainUnknown said:

    I have reservations for Monday, July 5th and Wednesday, July 7th for the park. Since the 5th is when most people get off for the 4th, I'm obviously planning on unlimited quick queue for that day. So the question is: if I buy in advance and for whatever reason, the park ends up being absolutely dead/lines are non-existent; will I be able to get a refund? Alternatively, how likely is it to sell out in park day of?

    And since I'm here, what is recommended for late-night bites in the area after park close? Or should I just plan on food at my lodgings?

    We had this exact concern with SWO back in October and it ended up being dead, they refunded our Quick Queue before we even had to ask and told us to just come back if it gets busier. I'm imagining they should handle it similarly at BGW if it's dead. I would expect for the park to be packed though regardless and they do occasionally sell out.

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  16. 8 hours ago, PKI Jizzman said:


    The Pub is very nice and during the crazy lines of Covid provided a nice break to sit at and get some quick bar food and to cool off. Bartenders were good and clearly had tons of experience handling a lot of people at once. Highly recommend it when the restaurant is closed and you're looking for a similar dining experience (just with a lot less food options).

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  17. 38 minutes ago, Canobie Coaster said:

    From my experience, most of the rides will run in even heavy rain.  There was a brief heavy rainstorm today and Steel Curtain was one of the few rides that stopped operating for a bit.

    The biggest issue on a day like this is if Kennywood closes early due to weather.  But if there's no thunder, you should be able to get on everything without much waits.

    From what I remember they do comp tickets when they close early. Likewise, if the park is particularly crowded, they will also extend their hours. One of the only parks I've been to that I've seen extend hours beyond posted closing. I haven't been post Covid though, so policy might be slightly different.

  18. 1 hour ago, Zand said:

    Here comes the "worst of CP" I mentioned at the beginning of the post. Got to Steel Vengeance at around 6:45. Wife didn't want to ride so she sat outside and waited. I went into the FP line to find that the standby line was also empty. Put my stuff in the lockers, then was directed to the line on the right. They were doing such an awful job at pulsing the line that two guys that were in front of me in the tunnel got sent to the left side and got on the ride FIVE trains before I did. I had to bite my tongue to not ask the girl working the top of the stairs if she knows how to count. But, I did ask her if I could get in line for the back (since, you know, that and the front have dedicated lines built for that reason) and she coldly said "actually, you can go to row 3". While I was waiting for row 3, she let the people behind me line up for the front. I kept my mouth shut and enjoyed the ride, but good god lady. Finally got off at 7:40 (yes, it took 45 f*cking minutes to get on the ride from the lockers because someone can't count) and saw the line was already closed and some guy with a pony tail and tye dye Kings Island shirt was SCREAMING at the guy working the entrance. My wife said they closed the line at 7:20 and had turned away a few hundred people. She also noted people who got in the regular line 20 minutes after I got in the FP line got off before me, and I was like yup. While most of the rest of the park seems to be back in typical CP shape (which is generally good), Steel Vengeance is still a clusterf*ck of epic proportions.

    Wow, they actually pulled off making the situation WORSE than opening day/weekend. So they were separating the lines after the lockers and the FL line was typically shorter opening weekend. Still highly inefficient, but not as bad as what you described.

    I saw many many people screaming at the ops when we were there. I just truly don't understand why CP is putting their employees in this situation. Employees lie and say the lines are "2 hours standby" when they're actually 20 to 30 minutes and it just creates this distrust. I hope they go back to just closing the lines with the park. I do get why so many are upset, people wait an hour for a corn dog so they don't pass out then get turned down 2 hours early for two of the most popular attractions next door on already reduced days and hours. If the park closes at 6 or 7, just close the park then.

    My favorite quote I heard from a SV employee was "don't put your bags behind the railings, this isn't six flags". Well SFGAdv and SFSTL both had awesome operations, staff, cleanliness and so on. We put off using our season long fast pass at any Cedar Fair park because it's still miserable compared to Universal, Herschend, Six Flags and every other park we've gone too this year and last year.


    • Like 2
  19. On 5/18/2021 at 4:09 PM, Carrie said:

    So, would you go again under the same circumstances?   I am new to FL and not familiar entirely with how it works.   Do the lines for FL get to be as long as the regular lines?  And, if they do, is this typical?  I just really want to be armed with info before we go. 




    Sorry for the delay, just saw you asked this question. I would not go again on a Saturday under the same circumstances, Friday and Sunday were still hectic but manageable. We're going again in a couple of weeks and hope to see how and if they've improved.

  20. On 5/17/2021 at 7:23 AM, coasterbill said:

    So how early have they been cutting ride lines? It seems like they’ve been posting a wait time until park close for everything in the app even after they close the rides to get people to walk over there and give them one final kick in the balls on the way out. 🤣

    I love that actual news stations are dragging them for their horrible opening weekend. I don’t really feel bad for anyone who went in with unreasonable expectations as this happens every single year, but I enjoy watching them get called out for it.

    So to answer your question, they closed SV about 2 hours before closing on Saturday. They closed Maverick around 1 hour and I believe the same went for MF.

    Now, for those wondering, did these lines finish out before the park closed? Yes, they did and yes they did open them back up since they extremely over estimated the wait times to push guests to the front of the park. When they opened back up for Maverick they did not reopen FL (many people with it just jumped over to it anyways and they let them on). SV is easier to open FL so it did open back with the line. This resulted in essentially no waits for both so if you were patient and risked it, you did get to ride. They would close the lines back off about 15 minutes before so they would have a strict 8pm closing on both rides. 

    It was a rocky start and as usual rides weren't open, some were broken and they had typical opening day issues. The biggest frustrations I saw from employees and park goers were these new ride line closures and guests becoming extremely upset especially with FL. The persistent ones got to ride though and if you were reasonable the employees gave a "non answer" of sorts if it would open and appreciated reasonable guests just looking to get a few last rides in. Hopefully the park changes this policy since this was definitely the straw that broke the camels back for many people. Customer Service lines were insane with FL Saturday, haha.

    • Thanks 1
  21. 6 hours ago, Carrie said:

    Yikes!!  Back in the day, May was dead !  It was on and off things!   Of course, when they opened in the past, it was 7 days a week.   How were things with the fast lane and fast lane plus??  I am not so sure I even want to go now.  I don't do lines well and I do NOT want to drop big bucks on FLP if it is no better! 

    Lines were bad, but FastLane made it bearable. Every coaster that I saw for the day for standby had an hour plus wait though. As we were leaving people were planning their days for the rest of the weekend so they could ride 3 coasters in one day. 

    Fast Lane kept lines to about 15 to 20 minutes on most major coasters. Most rides listed wait times for longer, but many times we got on in five minutes with it. I would not plan a day without it and on days like today. They do tend to sell out later on. 

    Operations were good though, some slow areas. For opening day though they got through the lines fairly well. Rides were down though. TTD ran but never opened to the public, appeared it was under going an inspection of sorts since they kept cycling trains. Rougarou didn’t have a train on the track, MaxAir was torn apart, Windseeker appeared to be going through inspections as well. A lot of the rides were slow to open with the park as well. 

    if you want to ride any of the big four, do it early! The park closes both fast lane and the stand by line an hour before park closing. Millennium had an estimated 45 minute wait at 7 and they closed it regardless. I don’t think this is going to last though, a lot of people were upset including employees over it. 

    Guest relations said that they weren’t supposed to close FL and are working to get all lines open to park close. Not in the generic Covid sense, but that they have a meeting setup this weekend to hopefully lift the restrictions. (Be polite and don’t be a Karen, but if you’re at the park try giving your feedback on the early closures!) The ride attendants pretty much said the same thing, that they don’t agree with it but it’s the rule for now and they asked us to leave a comment to guest relations. It’s interesting and kind of cool how the employees themselves at CP stand behind tradition within the park. They gave us passes for another day though so we definitely appreciated it and didn’t expect it. Hopefully this is a very short lived change to park operations especially when it’s so difficult to ride many of the coasters already. 

    Covid doesn’t exist really at CP. I was shocked the vast difference in procedure closing day to opening day. Masks are not required in the park or on rides, only in buildings. Even in buildings it’s very loosely enforced as many people weren’t wearing masks. Social distancing is also non existent. For us, it’s not a huge deal, but if this does concern you just be aware when visiting the park. 

    Ride operations also do not have Covid procedures or cleaning anymore. This was also a big reason people weren’t okay with the policy change on the major coasters early closing since operations are all normal and all rows are also open and they do seat separate groups together as well. 

    The last note, SV lockers! So the new system is strange. I’m not sure why they wouldn’t repurpose snd add to the existing lockers due to the extreme operational increase, but here’s how it works. FL and stand by go through as normal, before the SV structure now they merge both lines similar to MF. You get placed into a short line for just the lockers and metal detectors, you put your items in the locker then they rejoin and separate you out based on FL or stand by again.

    When you exit the ride you have to go back to the entrance and walk back to the lockers on the opposite side  

    it’s strange to say the least and slow, we saw rows go out empty at times as they filled the lines back up. Growing pains Im sure and I doubt this will last. From what I saw this required 4 extra team members for this system. 

    I’ll say this though, having your phone with you is nice. I personally need it for my diabetes since it operates as my monitor. Today in particular I didn’t realize I was going low and had to leave the line and wouldn’t of known otherwise. While my situation is a bit unique, people do rely on their phone for more than social media and I do appreciate this system allows me to keep it on me. 

    • Like 1
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  22. 10 hours ago, cfc said:

    I know that Verbolten wasn't on Quick Queue during it's opening season, so my best guess for Pantheon is "probably not," although they most likely built a Quick Queue entrance for it for subsequent seasons. But who knows? Maybe they'll offer a single Quick Queue pass.

    They were giving out Quick Queue as a pass incentive at the end of 2019, we still have a couple. Curious if it'll be honored this year. Other than that, both Busch parks typically don't included their new coasters on Quick Queue initially.

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