Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

P. 28 - Verrückt will be removed from the park!
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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby TEDodd » Thu May 31, 2018 3:44 pm

FeelTheFORCE wrote:since they were acting under the direction of Schooley and Henry.


Were they? What evidence supports that they were specifically told to not reinstall the mat?

I don't see where there was a reason not to. Certainly no upside for upper management to direct it not be reinstalled.


Simple repair, done after hours.

I can maybe see not shutting it down that day, but no reason not to repair overnight/next morning before opening.

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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby FeelTheFORCE » Thu May 31, 2018 5:38 pm

Everything they did was under the supervision of upper management. As their superiors, they are ultimately responsible for the maintenance workers' actions. It doesn't matter if they were or weren't directly told, at the end of the day their superiors failed to properly supervise them, resulting in blatant negligence. The maintenance employees were charged with obstruction of justice for changing their stories and lying to law enforcement. That has nothing to do with repairing a mat or any of the other negligence charges. All they needed to do was tell the truth and they probably would've been fine.
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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby Comeagain? » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:08 am

TEDodd wrote:Simple repair, done after hours.

I can maybe see not shutting it down that day, but no reason not to repair overnight/next morning before opening.


No. That's not how rides should be run. You DO NOT run rides or attractions without safety components functioning and in place. Period. End of Story. If a raft has velcro straps that are about to fail, it should be removed from service, and the others that have been inspected and found okay can continue to run, sure. But brakes that are required to keep rafts running at a safe speed are not optional. Even for the rest of the afternoon. If you can't make that repair while the park is open, sucks to suck. Get ready to hand out comp tickets or something, but you don't try and limp through the rest of the day like that.

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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby TEDodd » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:53 pm

Comeagain? wrote:
TEDodd wrote:Simple repair, done after hours.

I can maybe see not shutting it down that day, but no reason not to repair overnight/next morning before opening.


No. That's not how rides should be run.


Didn't say it should be done that way, just that I can see the thought process (wrong as it is) and external pressures that could lead to not shutting down a big draw like that slide.

I can't phantom what would lead them to not repair it after hours.

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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby TEDodd » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:05 am

FeelTheFORCE wrote:Everything they did was under the supervision of upper management. As their superiors, they are ultimately responsible for the maintenance workers' actions.


Sure, but the comments were implying that those two were specifically instructed to do/not do something.

If they acted on their own, the liability falls differently.

Big difference in a subordinate not doing as trained/instructed and a supervisor instructing them to do things wrong. Of course how the supervisor handles it when they learn of the error matters too.

If Joe on in the maintenance shop makes a mistake that kills someone, the CEO is not likely to be convicted of manslaughter. Joe would be. Possibly his direct supervisor. But not management 4 or 5 levels removed.

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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby FeelTheFORCE » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:19 pm

TEDodd wrote:Sure, but the comments were implying that those two were specifically instructed to do/not do something.

If they acted on their own, the liability falls differently.

Big difference in a subordinate not doing as trained/instructed and a supervisor instructing them to do things wrong. Of course how the supervisor handles it when they learn of the error matters too.

If Joe on in the maintenance shop makes a mistake that kills someone, the CEO is not likely to be convicted of manslaughter. Joe would be. Possibly his direct supervisor. But not management 4 or 5 levels removed.


I never said they were specifically instructed to do anything. "Acting under the direction of" could simply mean following whatever negligent policies and procedures they had established. You're reading way too far into the semantics of what I wrote. More often than not, the person who signs off on everything is going to be the one prosecuted. Unless it's a blatantly egregious act, where the individual was clearly acting on their own accord.
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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby TEDodd » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:47 pm

FeelTheFORCE wrote:More often than not, the person who signs off on everything is going to be the one prosecuted. Unless it's a blatantly egregious act, where the individual was clearly acting on their own accord.


Right. The 2 big guys they are going after are not the ones signing off on the work.

That's why I don't see how these two make much of a case against the others.

It does sound like these two were negligent though. Bit fixing the speed control is closer to the proximate cause than what upper management/designers/builders did.

Only thing worse was the miss loading of the raft (improper distribution) and it appears it was done in violation of policy/procedures.

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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby TheGallophingGhost » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:58 am

Comeagain? wrote:
TEDodd wrote:Simple repair, done after hours.

I can maybe see not shutting it down that day, but no reason not to repair overnight/next morning before opening.


No. That's not how rides should be run. You DO NOT run rides or attractions without safety components functioning and in place. Period. End of Story. If a raft has velcro straps that are about to fail, it should be removed from service, and the others that have been inspected and found okay can continue to run, sure. But brakes that are required to keep rafts running at a safe speed are not optional. Even for the rest of the afternoon. If you can't make that repair while the park is open, sucks to suck. Get ready to hand out comp tickets or something, but you don't try and limp through the rest of the day like that.


Hello all.

I have lurked here for years and finally made an account to post. I have been involved in theme park ride safety and maintenance most of my career. Please understand why I do not wish to identify myself or my current and former employers. For over 15 years up I have been the senior person at two major theme parks regarding operations and maintenance.

The above quote is something I have dealt with literally hundreds and maybe thousands of times with rides. It’s a delicate balance. Safety should always be the first priority and I can say unequivocally in my career I have never knowingly or purposely allowed an unsafe ride to operate. I would never place a patron or employee in danger. This isn’t to say I haven’t made mistakes but fortunately none directly causing injuries or deaths. I used to say I’d never let a ride operate I wouldn’t ride myself but have had to change my mantra to I’d never let a ride operate I wouldn’t let my kids ride. Some of the newer rides coupled with my age have caused me to not ride them!

There is always a clash between the financial, marketing, sales, maintenance, engineering and rank-and-file worker. My brother is a senior level safety engineer with a major airline and has similar thoughts and stories.

If you were to ask an executive in any discipline if they would want a ride that was unsafe operating they universally would say no. They would say safety is paramount. However, when it comes to their department and their job there is sadly jockeying and pressure to achieve their goals. They will say all the correct things regarding safety and they truly mean it but often their goals push them to exert pressure contrary to best practices. Many times they don’t realize the conundrum, stress and issues this causes for other departments or employees.

Be assured the stress and pressure to operate, have rides operating and open is huge. It’s truly a balancing act and you better be right every time. Close a ride unnecessarily too many times and expect to be out of a job. Let a ride operate and there is an accident it’s all on your butt.

Several years ago at a major park there was a new state-of-the-art roller coaster. It was designed to operate five trains with six blocks. It was one of the most expensive rides ever made at the time but the problem was the computerized block and safety system just flat out didn’t work properly. We couldn’t get the ride to operate more than a few cycles without shutting down. We were already behind and the manufacturer was frantically trying to remedy the problem. Soft opening was a disaster. No one was at risk safety wise but most of the time ride stops were the norm.

The pressure was on me to have the ride operating for opening day. It was a complicated situation as the top execs expected the ride to operate but of course safety was important but at the end of the day the pressure and message was clear—make sure the ride was operating for the grand opening.

Hopefully you can see my position. A position that exists frequently.

I came up with a solution. Disable the automated block brake system and operate the coaster with one train. Throughput truly sucked but the ride was open and open safely. All objectives were met. You can’t have a train hit another train if there is only one on the tracks. Good solution I thought. Most importantly a safe solution.

After 3-4 days working with the manufacturer we were able to add a second train. One in the station loading and once operating. After about 6 weeks (we tested at night) all 5 trains were safely operating. The system issues had been corrected.

Everyone happy. No one at risk. The pressure was huge.

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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby robbalvey » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:08 pm

Verrückt slide to finally be torn down after death of Caleb Schwab in August 2016

http://www.kmbc.com/article/verruckt-slide-to-finally-be-torn-down-after-death-of-caleb-schwab-in-august-2016/22132690

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KANSAS CITY, Kan. —
Years after a 10-year-old boy was killed while riding the Verrückt water slide at Schlitterbahn Water Park Kansas City, Kan. - the slide will finally be torn down.

A judge has granted approval for the deconstruction of that ride.

In August 2016, 10-year-old Caleb Schwab was killed while riding Verrückt when the raft he was in went airborne.

A spokesperson for Schlitterbahn says deconstruction of the ride will proceed in the coming months.

The ride has remained largely intact as part of the investigation into Schwab's death.

Multiple people have been charged in connection with the incident.

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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby SoCalJasonland » Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:54 am

"According to the Kansas City Star, an attorney representing an affiliate of park operator Schlitterbahn said Thursday that the 17-story slide called Verruckt would start coming down a week after Labor Day.

The process is expected to take about three weeks."

www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ny-news-ny-water-ride-caleb-schwab-20180713-story.html

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