Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby TEDodd » Thu May 31, 2018 3:44 pm

FeelTheFORCE wrote:since they were acting under the direction of Schooley and Henry.


Were they? What evidence supports that they were specifically told to not reinstall the mat?

I don't see where there was a reason not to. Certainly no upside for upper management to direct it not be reinstalled.


Simple repair, done after hours.

I can maybe see not shutting it down that day, but no reason not to repair overnight/next morning before opening.

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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby FeelTheFORCE » Thu May 31, 2018 5:38 pm

Everything they did was under the supervision of upper management. As their superiors, they are ultimately responsible for the maintenance workers' actions. It doesn't matter if they were or weren't directly told, at the end of the day their superiors failed to properly supervise them, resulting in blatant negligence. The maintenance employees were charged with obstruction of justice for changing their stories and lying to law enforcement. That has nothing to do with repairing a mat or any of the other negligence charges. All they needed to do was tell the truth and they probably would've been fine.
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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby Comeagain? » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:08 am

TEDodd wrote:Simple repair, done after hours.

I can maybe see not shutting it down that day, but no reason not to repair overnight/next morning before opening.


No. That's not how rides should be run. You DO NOT run rides or attractions without safety components functioning and in place. Period. End of Story. If a raft has velcro straps that are about to fail, it should be removed from service, and the others that have been inspected and found okay can continue to run, sure. But brakes that are required to keep rafts running at a safe speed are not optional. Even for the rest of the afternoon. If you can't make that repair while the park is open, sucks to suck. Get ready to hand out comp tickets or something, but you don't try and limp through the rest of the day like that.

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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby TEDodd » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:53 pm

Comeagain? wrote:
TEDodd wrote:Simple repair, done after hours.

I can maybe see not shutting it down that day, but no reason not to repair overnight/next morning before opening.


No. That's not how rides should be run.


Didn't say it should be done that way, just that I can see the thought process (wrong as it is) and external pressures that could lead to not shutting down a big draw like that slide.

I can't phantom what would lead them to not repair it after hours.

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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby TEDodd » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:05 am

FeelTheFORCE wrote:Everything they did was under the supervision of upper management. As their superiors, they are ultimately responsible for the maintenance workers' actions.


Sure, but the comments were implying that those two were specifically instructed to do/not do something.

If they acted on their own, the liability falls differently.

Big difference in a subordinate not doing as trained/instructed and a supervisor instructing them to do things wrong. Of course how the supervisor handles it when they learn of the error matters too.

If Joe on in the maintenance shop makes a mistake that kills someone, the CEO is not likely to be convicted of manslaughter. Joe would be. Possibly his direct supervisor. But not management 4 or 5 levels removed.

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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby FeelTheFORCE » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:19 pm

TEDodd wrote:Sure, but the comments were implying that those two were specifically instructed to do/not do something.

If they acted on their own, the liability falls differently.

Big difference in a subordinate not doing as trained/instructed and a supervisor instructing them to do things wrong. Of course how the supervisor handles it when they learn of the error matters too.

If Joe on in the maintenance shop makes a mistake that kills someone, the CEO is not likely to be convicted of manslaughter. Joe would be. Possibly his direct supervisor. But not management 4 or 5 levels removed.


I never said they were specifically instructed to do anything. "Acting under the direction of" could simply mean following whatever negligent policies and procedures they had established. You're reading way too far into the semantics of what I wrote. More often than not, the person who signs off on everything is going to be the one prosecuted. Unless it's a blatantly egregious act, where the individual was clearly acting on their own accord.
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Re: Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

Postby TEDodd » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:47 pm

FeelTheFORCE wrote:More often than not, the person who signs off on everything is going to be the one prosecuted. Unless it's a blatantly egregious act, where the individual was clearly acting on their own accord.


Right. The 2 big guys they are going after are not the ones signing off on the work.

That's why I don't see how these two make much of a case against the others.

It does sound like these two were negligent though. Bit fixing the speed control is closer to the proximate cause than what upper management/designers/builders did.

Only thing worse was the miss loading of the raft (improper distribution) and it appears it was done in violation of policy/procedures.

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