Magnum PA

What. The. Hell was that? ^ The video looks fine, and I'm glad they put an official one out before all of the rule-brakes start posting them. Could they have used a better camera? Sure. But the video's not bad. Hershey films there own rides and doesn't permit clubs to film. Big deal. Putting a high-quality POV out there probably isn't at the top of their priority list.

Actually, yes. Expedition GeForce, Both "Ride of Steel"s, and Bizarro all have trims. This thought has seemed to be a hit, so I should probably clarify. Ride of Steel and Bizarro have a small trim at the tail end of the course. Neither has any affect on the ride, and if I remember correctly, were added years after the rides opened. Superman at SFA has no trim on the course from what I remember, and from what I see on POV's online. GeForce has two small trims on throughout the course. Whether they were there from the beginning or were added later, I don't know. Re: Looper I'm looking forward to riding it, with its new trains, almost as much as I'm Skyrush. Should be soon. Checking out now...

I'm glad you did. Obviously others did not...

That's already been answered. They knew that there would be a possibility for trims to be added (hence the brackets), did the necessary testing for the ride for the last several weeks (as always), found out that they do in fact need trims because it's running a little faster than anticipated, and added them. As I said before, the testing process worked EXACTLY like it was supposed to. So I still don't see what the issue is. You can point at rides like Fahrenheit and Millennium Force, which have pre-built brackets for trims, as prime examples of testing working in the other direction. They thought they might need trims, tested them, found out they didn't, so everything was hunkee doree. Roller coaster building is not linear. Yes, I understand the "WHY", as in why new coasters have brackets/trims installed from the start. Many new steel coasters have them. I understand the logic and reasoning, and I've stated that. But perhaps no one but Intamin can answer the greater question as to "WHY" a new ride is designed in such a fashion that trims are necessary before it even opens to the public. Yes, every ride is different, but the process to design them is very similar. If Skyrush and I-305 have initial drops that are too large and create too much speed for the rest of the design, then there are only two conclusions. 1) The first drop is too tall, 2) the rest of the ride is too short. If there is not enough resistance on the rest of the course to safely and comfortably counteract the energy created by the first drop, then that is a "flaw" in the design. Skyrush has a 200 foot first drop, but after that, its highest point is only 80 feet. I-305 has a 300 foot drop, and its highest point after that is only 150 feet, and after that still-sizable drop, it pretty much stays low to the ground. Both rides are/will be a blast, but to even untrained eye, the difference in the height between the first two hills, by design, doesn't seem right. I mean, we're talking about Intamin's two most recent mega-coasters here, and both have been trimmed prior to opening. Once I ride Skyrush, I will have ridden them all (in the U.S.). They are my favorite type of ride - both style and manufacturer. But do any of the predecessors need/use trim brakes on the course? No! Design a ride with locations for possible trims if necessary - makes sense. But don't design a ride that will need them right away - something that Intamin has more control over than people seem to think. It's a waste of kinetic energy, and brakes up the flow for us. That's all I'm saying.

Due to the short attention span of many of this forum's users, this argument has gotten off track. It's gone from "Why does another Intamin ride need to be trimmed before it opens?" to "Hersheypark is stupid and Skyrush is going to suck because it has trims." I asked the former. No one in this thread has said the latter.

I don't remember that. Just so we're clear, you're referring to the same brakes that came off when the first drop brakes were installed? I also disagree that the ending is perfectly thrilling with the brakes. For me it was lacking, compared to the rest of the ride.

That was my photo of the trim brake that I sent to a friend of mine. He must have posted it on Facebook. I briefly passed by the site today and snapped two photos of two of the supposed three trims. This one is at the base of the "Stengel" dive. The other just after the apex of the second air time hill. I didn't see a third one to be honest, but I didn't look too hard either. I have to say, I like that these brakes are small and spread out - that should really minimize their affect on the ride experience. It would be really neat, as they look to be electrically driven magnetic brakes, if they could turn them on and off as needed. It would be great if Kings Dominion could do something like this for I-305, and eliminate that long dragging brake at the end. To those that said that I-305 and Skyrush were designed with these trim brakes in mind... I don't think that's completely accurate. They were designed to have trims placed if needed (brackets). I'm not sure if that's what you guys meant. But there is a huge difference in saying that and saying the rides were designed to use trims from the beginning. Fahrenheit has a similar bracket after the cobra roll. It has yet to have a brake installed. Again, many B&M rides are built with mechanical trim brakes that can be turned on and off as need (the preferred method, in my opinion). Designing rides with trims installed, or spots for trims to be installed is common. Designing rides with the intent to use trims makes no sense to me. Again, Intamin is known to push the envelope, which is great. We can all appreciate that. But we've seen them cut that margin too close so many times, that pre-opening adjustments have had to be made (Maverick, I-305, now Skyrush). I'm sorry, I'd rather ride a ride that has nothing tugging on the train as I'm riding. Intamin's rides may be more fun and intense, but I'd rather they play the design just a tad safer (re: the margins), as to not have the ride trimmed after the fact. I see no reason, with today's technology and experience, that a brand new ride should need to be trimmed. *Edit - I just saw the photo comparison from user XYZ. If this Intamin brake can't be turned off, then I would rather have the B&M version. Also, it looks as if, since these brackets are much longer than the brake itself, more brakes can be added as needed. Let's hope it stays with these minimal brakes for now.

Nope, we're talking about the three trim brake fins that have been reported as being installed. I never made a specific complaint about Skyrush, just Intamin in general. Pay attention. Thanks.

I understand what you're saying, and I appreciate your insight. I don't need to get into what I do for a living, but I can say that I'm not engineering illiterate either... But I don't really buy the "what's on the computer isn't what always comes out in real life" line of thought when dealing with today's roller coasters. The industry, let alone Intamin, has been building these things for quite some time. If this was the first steel 200 foot roller coaster ever built, then I'd understand if it needed tweaked in real life. Skyrush, from a layout perspective, is really nothing new, though I do believe the new train design influenced the layout. But from a layout perspective, if it truly needs to be trimmed already, then there was yet again another design flaw on Intamin's part, or maybe Hershey's. And ultimately, though I'm all for pushing limits, if you design something that gets too close to the "too much" line that you end up crossing the line in actuality, and you have to adjust (trim) later, then you wen too far in the design phase. I do think Skyrush will kick some serious tail in a week. I wish that there were no trim fins - and that they could slow the lift down to get the same affect. If there has to be brake fins, I like that there are three mini-trims - that is an excellent idea that should keep their impact minimal. We'll know soon enough...

Logging official complaint here, so there's no confusion... May have trims, really? Before I state my piece, let me just say that I understand that if it's creating forces that are deemed too much for the average rider, it needs to be slowed. I get that. But... Why, with today's technology, is a ride designed that needs to be trimmed before it even opens? It's mind boggling. I couldn't understand it with I-305, I don't get it now. Are Intamin's calculators broken? I understand that B&M coasters have had trims in recent years as well. But their's are different. They are mechanical brakes that can be turned on and off. They are there to be used if needed. Intamin trims are simple fins, fixed to a bracket. If they are there, they are on. For me, there is nothing that is more of a buzz kill on a ride than to feel it drag when it shouldn't - it's the one reason I didn't like I-305 as much as Millennium Force. I felt the late-hill trim was too much. I hope that these brakes either come off, or truly have minimal impact on the ride. Again, I understand that these brakes are deemed necessary because of the forces these coasters create. But the question is, why are these coasters being designed that way?

I love all of these "experts" that come out at the slightest hint of negativity. So, this is definitely the second train, huh? Good chance it could be... But is there any chance they took the nose off the first train for decals? Do you really know when this video was taken? My point is , you're 100% speculating, just like everybody else here. For real. No, to answer your question. If you look back, nobody is "complaining". Somebody just made a comment that the train doesn't move as quickly through the end of the ride as they thought it would. That would not be a complaint, just an observation. A few people, including, myself agreed. No one said it was slow. We just said it's not as fast as we thought it would be - fully recognizing that it's still early in the game and we've only seen video. Bottom line is, this is grainy digital video. It may look faster in real life, it may look slower. We all agree it will likely be a very fast/fun ride in person. Yes, just like any other coaster... so what? It's always a good way to build a strong foundation for an argument by taking one line - of a more complete thought - out of context. Good job.

Heavier/shorter train, more air resistance, speed-eating elements - take your pick. It moves a little slower than I anticipated too. It might speed up. Might not. I saw this on the Project 2012 Facebook page from a guy called "Park Connoisseur"... Makes sense to me.

The most recent sooperdooperLooper trains are not the originals. They we manufactured by Giovanola, I believe, back in the early 90's. The originals, seen here, were manufactured by Schwarzkopf, and the new ones are most certainly a throwback to that design.

It's exactly this - well said. The problem is, that is all about the figure for way too many people - which is kinda' annoying to me. (re: my signature)

This will be one of the times that I agree with Robb, and his response on the first page of this thread is pretty much exactly what I think. http://www.themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62435 There are a lot of LAME things in this hobby of ours, but counting roller coasters twice because it's been relocated is pretty damn lame. I also think it's pretty lame for an adult to ride kiddie steel coasters, unless you're with a kid. I skip them when I'm at a park without my kids. Not interested - and my all-important count has "suffered" because of it - having left over 40 rides unridden by my estimation. I'm also willing to skip boomerangs, SLC's, wild mice, and relocated rides (that I've already ridden elsewhere) when I visit a new park. If there's time, I'll give them a spin. But, I'm much more interested in the park's more unique attractions. I think part of the problem, if there is such a thing, derives from calling a roller coaster a "credit". I don't use the term. This isn't a game, it's a hobby. For some, it's an unhealthy obsession to attain as many "credits" as possible - like you're ever going to catch Alvey or Bannister or some others. Odds are that you won't, so just go out and travel, and enjoy these rides, and stop worrying about how high you count is. If your count is full of relocated coasters, kiddie steel coasters, and a lot of other crap that's been mentioned, then your number really means little to me.